Tulsa: A Description from a Coordinator of the Meeting

["GL"]

Many UPC miisters just received an invite to attend a "round table," discussion with members of their council. Evidently, these meetings are regional. They want to "hear from you."

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Man, if I had a dime for every lie these guys told back then I would be a rich man.

Why are we so suprised that the WPF was going to do what they have done? The men that started it were very much involved with politics in their former orgs, did we expect them to change? Kinda like Chicago politics and the current admin, nothing has changed!

Knowing some of the men personally, I have come to the understanding that it is all about politics! Forget the TV issue, that was just the excuse to have their little tea party and revolt. If it had not been that then something else would have come up. It is all politics.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Why are we so suprised that the WPF was going to do what they have done? The men that started it were very much involved with politics in their former orgs, did we expect them to change? Kinda like Chicago politics and the current admin, nothing has changed!

Knowing some of the men personally, I have come to the understanding that it is all about politics! Forget the TV issue, that was just the excuse to have their little tea party and revolt. If it had not been that then something else would have come up. It is all politics.

If this is true then some folks who have been led by the WPF into thinking it was all about "holiness" or a lack thereof in the UPC will be feel betrayed and duped by power hungry men of God to find out it was all about politics.

[StillStanding]

To me, this WWPF thing is so corrupt it makes me sick to my stomach! It's deception's finest hour!

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by "GL"

Many UPC miisters just received an invite to attend a "round table," discussion with members of their council. Evidently, these meetings are regional. They want to "hear from you."

To be fair and balanced.......this invitation was sent out to Independents, and organizational men from various oneness groups alike. While I do understand where some people draw their conclusions from, I think that this invite is no different from the AWCF or any other group inviting organizational men to participate. (For those that say it is an organization (and it may indeed become one) because it has all of the same features i.e. youth, missions, etc............ so does the AWCF and other "fellowship" groups.)

Secondly in answer to those who say it is/was all about politics, I completely disagree! Having a very clear understanding of its structure such an accusation is unwarranted. From the choosing of the chairman (with exception of the initial chairman limited to 2 years)to the term limits, to the replacement process, all are by "lot" which eliminates politicking IMHO. Just doesn't sound like something power hungry people would set up.

[Steve Epley]

Most of you folks do not go to UPC churches and most of the time is a UPC bashing forum so why the racket about the WPF?????

I recieved invites to UPC functions when I was in the AMF I never was offended. If I decided to go I went.

I happen to know several pastors who recieved this that are not UPC pastors.

I have NO desire to belong to the WPF but all this WPF thrashing is unseemingly.

Particularly while y'all applaud Global and other such groups who are also primarily made up of disgruntled ex-UPC men.

Global and such like are on the left and the WPF is on the right what is the difference?

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Most of you folks do not go to UPC churches and most of the time is a UPC bashing forum so why the racket about the WPF?????

I recieved invites to UPC functions when I was in the AMF I never was offended. If I decided to go I went.

I happen to know several pastors who recieved this that are not UPC pastors.

I have NO desire to belong to the WPF but all this WPF thrashing is unseemingly.

Particularly while y'all applaud Global and other such groups who are also primarily made up of disgruntled ex-UPC men.

Global and such like are on the left and the WPF is on the right what is the difference?

Bro. Epley,
I am not a Global defender or an attacker of WPF however, the differences are more than ideological. I have never recieved one piece of literature or announcement of any of their (Global) meetings. WPF,(IMO) is actively solicitling members in a not too covert or subtle manner. They left the UPCI (primarily), go already. Leave the UPCI alone and do their own thing.
Honestly. Why do you think they are sending these magazines and announcments of their functions. Be honest now.
I still find it quite ironic the magazine of the WPF is called "Together". Funny, they were not practicing "togetherness" when they were in the UPCI, but now that they have pulled out, it seems they are saying, "can't we all just get along...OUR way"
If they really wanted to be "Together" they did not have to leave, and they can get "Together" and return, as no one prohibited them from teaching the rules they liked.
Lord Bless

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Why are we so suprised that the WPF was going to do what they have done? The men that started it were very much involved with politics in their former orgs, did we expect them to change? Kinda like Chicago politics and the current admin, nothing has changed!

Knowing some of the men personally, I have come to the understanding that it is all about politics! Forget the TV issue, that was just the excuse to have their little tea party and revolt. If it had not been that then something else would have come up. It is all politics.

Yeah, but as Edward A. points out, AT THE TIME there was a A LOT of excuse making by some folks that used to be on here. In the end some of them just had to hang their head in shame and find some place else to play because people here kept trying to hold their feet to the fire.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by bishoph

To be fair and balanced.......this invitation was sent out to Independents, and organizational men from various oneness groups alike. While I do understand where some people draw their conclusions from, I think that this invite is no different from the AWCF or any other group inviting organizational men to participate. (For those that say it is an organization (and it may indeed become one) because it has all of the same features i.e. youth, missions, etc............ so does the AWCF and other "fellowship" groups.)

Secondly in answer to those who say it is/was all about politics, I completely disagree! Having a very clear understanding of its structure such an accusation is unwarranted. From the choosing of the chairman (with exception of the initial chairman limited to 2 years)to the term limits, to the replacement process, all are by "lot" which eliminates politicking IMHO. Just doesn't sound like something power hungry people would set up.

You know, I would love to be wrong about my opinion on this,... but I don't think I am.

I have something I say to folks about situations like this. Let's give it 5 years. Let's see where the WPF is, we'll see how many folks they have pulled out of various orgs, and let history bear out witness one way or another. Apparently 15 months has shown some already. I have family in a church pastored by a WPF man in a central state. This pastor is a presbyter in the UPCI also. He made all the licensed ministers in his church drop their upci licenses but he kept his.

As far as the chairman structure and etc, there is still the basic idea that it is one group of men pulling the strings as opposed to another. Look at all of the different departments! We see a lot of the similar names throughout the departments. I still smell the stench of politics in it. Sorry!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Most of you folks do not go to UPC churches and most of the time is a UPC bashing forum so why the racket about the WPF?????

I dunno Bro. Did you look at my "Infractions." Twice I was dinged for sticking up for the UPC and calling out those who were bashing it in favor of the WPF.

And my family attends a UPC church - I attend when I can. I work 12 hour days Sunday - Wednesday. I feel fortunate enough just to have this job that I haven't begun to agitate for a new schedule.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I recieved invites to UPC functions when I was in the AMF I never was offended. If I decided to go I went.

I happen to know several pastors who recieved this that are not UPC pastors.

It's a rather glaring attempt at recruitment, IMHO. Given the way the WPF was first organized and the attending deception. And now, after 15 months of very little or no growth - they are "reaching out." Yeah.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have NO desire to belong to the WPF but all this WPF thrashing is unseemingly.

Particularly while y'all applaud Global and other such groups who are also primarily made up of disgruntled ex-UPC men.

Global and such like are on the left and the WPF is on the right what is the difference?

I don't know what Global is (the KP thing?). You are a gentleman, Bro. (at least when you're not acting cranky on purpose). You've also found a way to successfully navigate the waters of Apostolicia without getting your hull full of holes. Many of us have other types of ties and life long allegiances that cause us to feel like we have to speak up at times rather than completely cut 'er loose.