I'm part of the Home and Hospital Visitation Team for a local Vineyard Church. Even though I do not go there any more I still help with their visitation.
A few years ago I went for a home visit to the parents of a woman who goes to the Vineyard. I had been to the hospital to pray for the mother when she had knee surgery. This trip was to the home to pray for the father who had fallen from a ladder. They are Roman Catholic and were unhappy that their adult daughter had "been baptized at the Vineyard and joined that Church." they had her "baptized" as a baby. Now this was an adult daughter who was not even living at home. I explained to them that the Vineyard does not have a formal membership. Anyone who goes there and considers themselves a "member" is a member. I explained to them that what their daughter did was not a rejection of what they had done when she was a baby. They had her baptized as a baby and made vows to raise her in the church. I told them they must have done a pretty good job of raising her as a Christian because she later chose to be baptized on her own. I told them what they did for her was fine but she just wanted to be baptized as an adult to publicly declare her own personal decision to give her life to the Lord. They seemed pretty good with my explanation.
I was raised by an athiest later agnostic father and a non-practicing Roman Catholic mother (Irish-Italian)....they never talked religion and never took me to church. One day my parents decided they would send me to a private baptist school...he was convinced by a colleague at work I would get a better education.
My dad was VERY VERY upset when I came home from a school retreat and announced I had accepted Jesus as my savior. I thought my dad would be happy lol
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I guess I'm just thinking of my husband whose father disowned him for dating/marrying me. Of course, Jeff was older--but he still completely defied his parents. His father was even MORE furious when Jeff was baptized in Jesus' name. (before we were married)
Even parents have no jurisdiction in some matters. A relationship with God is one of those. Yes, you can and should guide your minor children in the ways you believe are right. But ultimately you cannot force them into salvation, or into accepting your beliefs and convictions. Nor is it right to prevent them from attaining salvation.
I still think the God vs. man principle applies here. I don't give a hoot what the legal system has to say about it. I'm interested in what God thinks.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
IF the church did it, YOU COULD LAY MONEY ON THEM FINDING OUT. That is the sad thing. I would love to know if these parents who don't want their child getting baptized would be as upset if they smoked weed or got drunk or even got a tattoo.
When my FIL found out Jeff had been baptized in Jesus' name, he said he'd rather Jeff was a Catholic or Mormon (or JW). (Which is the height of heathenism to my FIL)
I've definitely known some parents who would prefer to see their children drinking and partying than attending church--of any sort. That is sad.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
IF the church did it, YOU COULD LAY MONEY ON THEM FINDING OUT. That is the sad thing. I would love to know if these parents who don't want their child getting baptized would be as upset if they smoked weed or got drunk or even got a tattoo.
I went to church with a girl who had trouble with her parents. They did not want her getting baptized, though after the pastor talked to them they consented. Yet when they would get mad at her for something they would ground her from going to church. They never grounded her from going to school functions, or other extra curricular activities but always from church functions. Once she left the church and started doing the things they all did, get drunk, sleep around, etc etc she no longer had trouble with them. Makes no sense to me.
I can't speak for others, but I have heard some Oneness Pentecostals say they understand someone getting high or drunk - but joining another church is inexcusable!
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
When my FIL found out Jeff had been baptized in Jesus' name, he said he'd rather Jeff was a Catholic or Mormon (or JW). (Which is the height of heathenism to my FIL)
I've definitely known some parents who would prefer to see their children drinking and partying than attending church--of any sort. That is sad.
A woman once told me about how her children were wild and into drugs as teens, but what upset her the most is that they were both saved in a UPC church, married girls in the church, had children, and WOULDN'T CUT THEIR LITTLE GIRLS HAIR!!!
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I remember the night I was baptized, my mom was so upset. Later she told me it was because she didnt get to see it. I didnt even think of asking her if it was alright, I just wanted to be saved. I know your situation is different because you already know thier stance on it. A friend of mine was kicked out of his house when he was 17, his parents demanded he stop going to church and he refused. I cant imagine how hard that would be on someone. If you have read up on baptism and you truly believe it's required to obtain salvation, you only have one choice. Be baptized. Who knows what will happen it may be a hard road for you, then again mom and dad may join you! Which ever path it takes you down GOD will keep you. This decision is about you and GOD alone, no one else. I hope we never become a church concearned with the consequence's of baptising someone.
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The high cost of living is nothing like the cost of living high.- Jamie Johnson
Teen, you are certainly in a very difficult spot! I am truly sorry that this has happened to you, but let me first say how much I respect the fact that you have been obedient to your parents thus far. 5 years is a long time especially for someone who is 16! Wow that is nearly a third of your life!
Several have given advice here, some good and some...well some I may not agree with. Let me add a bit from maybe a little different perspective. (It is always good to walk all the way around a problem and look at it from different view points.)
First, the bible teaches us to honor our parents. So to start with, so long as you are not an adult, honoring your parents’ wishes cannot because you harm. You need to make sure they understand that you are honoring them and their wishes. They need to understand also that you appreciate the fact that they let you make the choice to attend this church.
Teen, I would tell them you appreciate what they do for you, that they let you go to this church and that you honor their wishes.
Second, I suspect you have had several conversations with your mom and dad about this baptism thing. I also suspect that it drives the conversation in a direction of conflict.
As long as you are "arguing" with your parents about this, they will see you as a kid, and will stiffen against you. This is hard, but you have to never get into "argue mode" when the conversation comes up. If it comes up., and your mom gets a little heated, stop hug her, tell her you love her and you respect her even if you disagree with her.
Be consistent with that approach. Let her see maturity in you and with time, one of two things will happen, she will agree, or you will be 18 and be able to make the decision on your own.
Those at church that might be causing you problems remember from their perspective, this is a matter of salvation. Also, remember they don’t deal with the kind of opposition you do. Love them. Make sure they know that first; you are committed to the Apostolic doctrine, that you love the church but that you also are committed to being obedient and respectful to your parents.
You have a plan, as soon as they give permission or you become a legal adult, you are going to be baptized.
God Bless, lot of folk here will be praying for you!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Teen, you are certainly in a very difficult spot! I am truly sorry that this has happened to you, but let me first say how much I respect the fact that you have been obedient to your parents thus far. 5 years is a long time especially for someone who is 16! Wow that is nearly a third of your life!
Several have given advice here, some good and some...well some I may not agree with. Let me add a bit from maybe a little different perspective. (It is always good to walk all the way around a problem and look at it from different view points.)
First, the bible teaches us to honor our parents. So to start with, so long as you are not an adult, honoring your parents’ wishes cannot because you harm. You need to make sure they understand that you are honoring them and their wishes. They need to understand also that you appreciate the fact that they let you make the choice to attend this church.
Teen, I would tell them you appreciate what they do for you, that they let you go to this church and that you honor their wishes.
Second, I suspect you have had several conversations with your mom and dad about this baptism thing. I also suspect that it drives the conversation in a direction of conflict.
As long as you are "arguing" with your parents about this, they will see you as a kid, and will stiffen against you. This is hard, but you have to never get into "argue mode" when the conversation comes up. If it comes up., and your mom gets a little heated, stop hug her, tell her you love her and you respect her even if you disagree with her.
Be consistent with that approach. Let her see maturity in you and with time, one of two things will happen, she will agree, or you will be 18 and be able to make the decision on your own.
Those at church that might be causing you problems remember from their perspective, this is a matter of salvation. Also, remember they don’t deal with the kind of opposition you do. Love them. Make sure they know that first; you are committed to the Apostolic doctrine, that you love the church but that you also are committed to being obedient and respectful to your parents.
You have a plan, as soon as they give permission or you become a legal adult, you are going to be baptized.
God Bless, lot of folk here will be praying for you!
Ferd, this is a great post!!!
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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