Brutish Pastors Scatter Sheep

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by edjen01

not sure if you are a man or a woman....or if you have witnessed an actual birth...they NOT the same.

to say that there are spiritual genetics is crazy. where does this come from? are you getting this from Paul's statement to Timothy?...if so...then study that out a little more...Paul is not saying that spiritual traits are passed on like physical DNA.

i find your comparison to abusive parents to be disgusting. abuse is NOT passed on in your DNA. that fact that someone grows up in an abusive home does not make them become an abuser...no more than growing up in a church with a mature pastor makes a person a mature believer...going to a church where the pastor is dishonest does not make me cheat on my taxes.

we are responsilible for our own actions....for our own salvation....and for our own maturity. I do believe that if we surround ourselves with mature people they can help us....but ultimately it is up to us...no one else.

It appears that you live in a theoretical world as statistics will point out that these character traits are passed on. However, it is not DNA coded it is spiritually coded. When a person grows up in a particular environment they become familiar with it's workings.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Indeed... Pastors get burned out etc because they are taking the entire load intended for the entire ministry to take on.

Actually they are burned out because they are doing it in their strength. In reality there is no such thing as burn out when you are doing what God calls you to do. It is only when "we" try to do what God has called us to do that we burn out because we are in the flesh.

Not only should the load be broken up between Apostles, Prophetc, Evangelists, Pastors & Teachers but there should be multiple people in each ministry operating within the body.

The model exhausts pastors and frustrates others.

Your load shouldn't be broken up to anyone. Do what God has called you to do and do it in His strength.

[EA]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

This is a good thread with alot of good points. Sometimes, I think, problems arise out of expectation. Expectation from the sheep, and from the pastor. We tend to be very spoiled in America on many levels, and come to expect that life is all about "us". You know, "Us four, and no more"

To me there are two different types of expectation, expressed and implied. Sometimes expectations are not "expressed" clearly on both sides, then it leaves the door open for implication, which is basically a form of assumption.....and well, assuming to much leads to pie in the sky mentality. Some sheep expect the Pastor to be a mindreader, God, Superman - and thats not to mention the expectation they may have of his wife and children (that is another thread).

On the flip side, the pastor, if not careful, can have unrealistic expectations of the flock he oversees as well. I remember having a discussion with my pastor, where I had expressed what I had seen at another church that I assisted in. I told him that the leadership always filled the calendar with programs and things, and that many in the church would not voluntreer or show up. My solution.....If the church can't/won't support something......you just don't do that something. Just that simple.

Too many pastors are burdened down, not because there is no help, but because they try to do to much knowing there is no help, bur ASSUMING, people will come on board if its jotted down at a meeting. Too much of that, and he gets burned out, frustrated, and perhaps becomes part of the statistics on an earlier post.

My personal opinion is that there are alot of things that have been overlooked in terms of church structure, and how a church should operate. The pressures of finances are real, i have seen that destroy folks, but I wonder and also believe that it should not / does not, need to be this way. I don't want to derail this post, but the necessity of a building, all the platform equipment, and all the price tags that go with that are suspect to a degree to me. We have, in the USA, created a climate of expectation that "This is what a Church is/does" and we are, in large part, suffering for the expectation......no one said we could not change the expectation, but I wonder is many really want to??

This is an incredible post, and I agree 100% with everything in it.

In regard to paragraph three...

There is a real lack of help in most churches.

There are some things, in every church, that must be done.

MOST pastors do not want to do all of those things themselves, but they end up doing everything no one else is willing to do. And many people aren't willing to do ANYTHING.

I also think a general disdain for small churches hurts as well. All of the talent gravitates towards the large church setting. This feeds haves and have nots, in a big way.

[EA]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Actually they are burned out because they are doing it in their strength. In reality there is no such thing as burn out when you are doing what God calls you to do. It is only when "we" try to do what God has called us to do that we burn out because we are in the flesh.



Your load shouldn't be broken up to anyone. Do what God has called you to do and do it in His strength.

THis post is pure baloney!

Elijah was doing what God called him to do and suffered a mental breakdown.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

It appears that you live in a theoretical world as statistics will point out that these character traits are passed on. However, it is not DNA coded it is spiritually coded. When a person grows up in a particular environment they become familiar with it's workings.

we can agree to disagree.

the problem with statistics...is that they can be shaped to support whatever the agenda is. i do not doubt that people can learn bad/good habits from others...including parents and pastors....but to say that it is spiritually coded into them...there is no science or Bible to support this.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by edjen01

since we are talking about spiritual and not natural...i do not think this verse applies here....take it in its proper context.

It is taken in proper context. The point is, things in the spiritual reflect things in the natural.

and/or vice versa

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

This is an incredible post, and I agree 100% with everything in it.

In regard to paragraph three...

There is a real lack of help in most churches.

There are some things, in every church, that must be done.

MOST pastors do not want to do all of those things themselves, but they end up doing everything no one else is willing to do. And many people aren't willing to do ANYTHING.

I also think a general disdain for small churches hurts as well. All of the talent gravitates towards the large church setting. This feeds haves and have nots, in a big way.

I have heard it in other churches. I have even complained that sometimes our leaders try to do to much and we need to get more of the saints involved in planning and doing. Luckily though the churches we have attended have had, in all reality, plenty of helpers. Yes there are always more leaders (or at least self perceived leaders) who always know better than anyone else how things should be done but not willing to do it or help do it. Yet I can not complain about the churches we have been at not having enough help. There has always been people available to work. I told our leadership recently that I would prefer to NOT be part of the leadership and just be available to help anywhere we are needed.

[Margies3]

acjcpastor, I want to come to your church. You sound like you have the true heart of a pastor.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

THis post is pure baloney!

Elijah was doing what God called him to do and suffered a mental breakdown.

Poor example...Elijah was not filled with the Spirit. He was under a natural covenant that lived under a legal system. You are better versed than this EA...

Why not use the Apostle Paul as an example who endured far more than any of us have ever endured yet did not experience burn out.

Your baloney is not made with real meat

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

It is taken in proper context. The point is, things in the spiritual reflect things in the natural.

and/or vice versa

which is it? does the natural reflect the spiritual...or the spiritual the natural? both can't be the source.