Pentecostalism, Version 20.09

[rosebud]

How did I miss this???? I must be asleep...

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Apostolics are those people who are now embarrassed to call themselves Pentecostal because "Pentecostal" isn't legalistic enough for them any more.

I mean, hey, EVERYBODY claims to be Pentecostal nowadays! And this global outpouring of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is not real revival because most of these 1 billion people plus who have spoken in tongues do not follow legalistic, 18th century standards.

Ed....is this definition made up? what theological dictionary or study does it come from?

Since the largest religious in the world are Hindu(various forms), Muslim(various forms), and Christian(various forms)....and only a small part of one of those religions is "tongue-talkers"....I would hardly say "EVERBODY" claims to be Pentecostal.

again...where do you get that 1 out-of-every 6 people on planet earth is a tongue-talker? since even every Christian is not a "tongue-talker" than Christianity must have somewhere between 2 & 3 billion followers...which means that the Hindu's, Muslims, Buddhist, and everyone else makes up the remaining 3-4 billion. the numbers don't add up.

[KWSS1976]

If you put everyone in the world together and threw in the tongue talkers the tongue talkers would be so small it would be like dust in the wind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkbdP7sq0w8

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by edjen01

Ed....is this definition made up? what theological dictionary or study does it come from?

Since the largest religious in the world are Hindu(various forms), Muslim(various forms), and Christian(various forms)....and only a small part of one of those religions is "tongue-talkers"....I would hardly say "EVERBODY" claims to be Pentecostal.

again...where do you get that 1 out-of-every 6 people on planet earth is a tongue-talker? since even every Christian is not a "tongue-talker" than Christianity must have somewhere between 2 & 3 billion followers...which means that the Hindu's, Muslims, Buddhist, and everyone else makes up the remaining 3-4 billion. the numbers don't add up.

I heard a statistic read the other day that there are 600 million confirmed "tongue talkers" in the world today.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

I heard a statistic read the other day that there are 600 million confirmed "tongue talkers" in the world today.

that still seems a little "evangelistical" to me....but i haven't seen any numbers concerning tongue-talkers. it is difficult for me to believe that there are 300 million U.S. citizens....and 600 million tongue-talkers.

but 600 million is still easier to believe than 1/6th of the worlds population.

[The Lemon]

O.K. - here is my 2-cents. I will endeavor not to rant, complain, etc., just share my experience. I have been in the UPC for about 16-years. When I first came, alot of things were different than they are now. There did not seem to be much tolerance for anyone seeming to "straddle" the fence. Issues like women in pants, men in shorts, facial hair (On men, naturally!!, make-up, jewelry, hair cutting, burning, or trimming, etc., etc., were pretty rock solid standards with really no room for dissent.

Over the last ten years things have steadily changed, very gradual, but nevertheless, they have changed and are changing. There seems to be more and more pastors and even districts that have widely different stances on the aforementioned standards of Holiness. There is a very purposeful charge to be relevant, real, and progressive. Obviously this has started many a argument and with the TV resolution in 2007, a new organization. Things absolutely ARE changing, now wheather or not it is a good thing or a bad thing is another thread.

I have noticed, as has already been mentioned, that the up and coming generation does not subscribe to "Do it because I said so", they want scripture, they want to be shown. I know there are some that just want to be disobeidient and rebellious, but there are those who sincerely want to know the "Why". Everything from Salvation, Tithing, and Holiness is being questioned and the way I see it there are two choices:

1. Show them in the Word, teaching sound doctrine
2. Just rant and get frustrated because you don't like being questioned

When I came into the church I adopted alot of the aforementioned things and took the preacher, whomever that was, at their word. If it was preached, I just did it. To my shame, there was not alot of study done by me in the earlier years. I had a tremendous zeal, but very little knowlege, and even less wisdom. Yes, I won some souls, but I fear I pushed more away then I had one, truthfully. I see a generation now, that is not willing to just adopt, they want to be informed. I am speaking in general terms, of course.

With all that said, this is just what I have seen in one organization. I have no knowledge of any other OP organization. I feel that there has over time been too much emphasis on what a Christian should appear to look like, to the point that there is a tendancy to disregard any other Christian that does not look like us, or at least our percieved Christain look. I am all for living above reproach, and for Holiness, but I am not for boarderline cultic behavior where we judge ourselves by ourselves, and seek to devalue another persons walk with God because we have a "Better" revelation of truth.

Tradition can be both binding and destructive when it supercedes the Word of God. What is lacking most times is grace, patience, and love for each other and for people in general. I have said before that those who feel that the "Old Paths" are the only way (And yes I know we need to be in accordance to the Word, I am speaking of the extrabiblical interpretations of "old") will not give an inch, and I fear, neither will those on the opposite side of the spectrum.

The sad thing is, that there is a lost World hanging in the balance, while we fight and argue over the same issues, again and again, there is a soul that is hurting and in need of Jesus. What is our real purpose, to create division over culture and tradition, or win souls by loving them to Jesus?? I speak this mostly to myself, since I feel I am the cheifest among those who argue time and again over these issues.

[rgcraig]

The Lemon - well said!!!

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

O.K. - here is my 2-cents. I will endeavor not to rant, complain, etc., just share my experience. I have been in the UPC for about 16-years. When I first came, alot of things were different than they are now. There did not seem to be much tolerance for anyone seeming to "straddle" the fence. Issues like women in pants, men in shorts, facial hair (On men, naturally!!, make-up, jewelry, hair cutting, burning, or trimming, etc., etc., were pretty rock solid standards with really no room for dissent.

Over the last ten years things have steadily changed, very gradual, but nevertheless, they have changed and are changing. There seems to be more and more pastors and even districts that have widely different stances on the aforementioned standards of Holiness. There is a very purposeful charge to be relevant, real, and progressive. Obviously this has started many a argument and with the TV resolution in 2007, a new organization. Things absolutely ARE changing, now wheather or not it is a good thing or a bad thing is another thread.

I have noticed, as has already been mentioned, that the up and coming generation does not subscribe to "Do it because I said so", they want scripture, they want to be shown. I know there are some that just want to be disobeidient and rebellious, but there are those who sincerely want to know the "Why". Everything from Salvation, Tithing, and Holiness is being questioned and the way I see it there are two choices:

1. Show them in the Word, teaching sound doctrine
2. Just rant and get frustrated because you don't like being questioned

When I came into the church I adopted alot of the aforementioned things and took the preacher, whomever that was, at their word. If it was preached, I just did it. To my shame, there was not alot of study done by me in the earlier years. I had a tremendous zeal, but very little knowlege, and even less wisdom. Yes, I won some souls, but I fear I pushed more away then I had one, truthfully. I see a generation now, that is not willing to just adopt, they want to be informed. I am speaking in general terms, of course.

With all that said, this is just what I have seen in one organization. I have no knowledge of any other OP organization. I feel that there has over time been too much emphasis on what a Christian should appear to look like, to the point that there is a tendancy to disregard any other Christian that does not look like us, or at least our percieved Christain look. I am all for living above reproach, and for Holiness, but I am not for boarderline cultic behavior where we judge ourselves by ourselves, and seek to devalue another persons walk with God because we have a "Better" revelation of truth.

Tradition can be both binding and destructive when it supercedes the Word of God. What is lacking most times is grace, patience, and love for each other and for people in general. I have said before that those who feel that the "Old Paths" are the only way (And yes I know we need to be in accordance to the Word, I am speaking of the extrabiblical interpretations of "old") will not give an inch, and I fear, neither will those on the opposite side of the spectrum.

The sad thing is, that there is a lost World hanging in the balance, while we fight and argue over the same issues, again and again, there is a soul that is hurting and in need of Jesus. What is our real purpose, to create division over culture and tradition, or win souls by loving them to Jesus?? I speak this mostly to myself, since I feel I am the cheifest among those who argue time and again over these issues.

Good post!!

IMHO....most of the division comes when one sides decides that the other side is not saved....and then it all just sort of spirals out of control.

[StillStanding]

Please God - Do not pass us by!!!

[EA]

Originally Posted by edjen01

Ed....is this definition made up? what theological dictionary or study does it come from?

Since the largest religious in the world are Hindu(various forms), Muslim(various forms), and Christian(various forms)....and only a small part of one of those religions is "tongue-talkers"....I would hardly say "EVERBODY" claims to be Pentecostal.

again...where do you get that 1 out-of-every 6 people on planet earth is a tongue-talker? since even every Christian is not a "tongue-talker" than Christianity must have somewhere between 2 & 3 billion followers...which means that the Hindu's, Muslims, Buddhist, and everyone else makes up the remaining 3-4 billion. the numbers don't add up.

First of all, I find it ironic that you go around the board and reply to every post I make, calling me by my first name, and speaking to me as if we know each other.

Second of all, yes, it is MY definition. I am entitled to it, as I have been a Pentecostal for 33 years, only to find out recently that I am now "Apostolic."

Also, use your fingers and google 'glossolalia statistics'.

The numbers aren't mine. They've been published extensively elsewhere.