The Times...They are a-Changin'

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I didn't mention doing things disorderly.

Yeah, I know you didn't mention that...I was just taking your line of thought and continuing into the confusion that could be caused

[Jaxon]

OK......This will etiher work or it won't.......And just as it was mentioned in the book of Acts...."let them be...if it's of God you can't stop it....if God's not in it it will come to naught.............If someone wants to do something and they have much determination you're not going to stop them..........Time will tell all things.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

OK......This will etiher work or it won't.......And just as it was mentioned in the book of Acts...."let them be...if it's of God you can't stop it....if God's not in it it will come to naught.............If someone wants to do something and they have much determination you're not going to stop them..........Time will tell all things.

An excellent suggestion.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

I believe that you are right, but you also have to look at the "end of the story."

Those same people are typically, unproductive, have no capacity to create, live a self indulgent lifestyle, believe that something is owed to them, that government should take care of them, are lazy, not faithful, heavily in debt, and really affect no other lives.

Originally Posted by CC1

The spirit of the age we live in has a lot to do with this. I see a lack of commitment in many aspects of culture, not just the church.

It is a day of self centeredness and narcissism where people do not want any "structure". Anything that might oppose their will and whims is avoided.

Give them something worth belonging to / believing in / committing to and you might be surprised!

Why would someone submit to someone they don't respect? Why would they want to be a part of something that they can't 100% believe in?

Is it self-centered to want to retain your own identity? It's not about being told what to do, it's about being told who to be!

Being told to praise, worship, follow, serve, love, submit to God, etc. are fine with me. It's when you tell me that your way of doing so, is the only acceptable way, that we start to have problems.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I have been thinking alot lately how the x-generation and the y-generation coming with and after me is being educated, their attitude toward work, their specialties, and learning styles.

If you look at business and education today it is not what the baby boomer experienced in terms of a top down hierarchy and vertical business structure. No longer do kids out of school expect to work for the same company for 20-30 years and they are experiencing no loyalty from these companies.

The same thing with school, the environment is much more collaborative than it has ever been.

People my age and younger are finding that belonging to a group and having a collective title is not as appealing. We are finding that very few people graduating from college have any interest whatsoever in being members of professional associations.

I believe the days of traditional church structure are coming to an end. I am not saying that churches are going to die, what I am saying is that people are not going to be tied in as closely as they once were as "members".

There is a young man in our local UPC here, who I observed to be totally plugged in and appearing to be a member of the establishment (20th century thinking on my part), only when I had an opportunity to speak to him he told me, I don't consider myself Pentecostal or Apostolic, or even a member of The Blue Peaks and Green Valleys UPC Tabernacle.

I was stunned really but when I began to think about it, I bet not even the pastor knows this...and I bet he isn't the only one.

There is a reconing to be had here soon, and the hard liners can puff and groan, and call me all manner of sordid names, but I am not thinking it will have much affect on you beyond observation from your wheelchairs...

I know I don't post much anymore, but like I said in my previous post, I am really exhausted with all the worship of the organization and movement and even local churches. It is sad to see the Lord Jesus transcended by culture and pomp and circumstance.

Carpenter,

Yes, I believe you are right. There is very little loyalty to a church or organization, as well as a place of employment or professional organizations. There are a couple reasons for this, in my opinion of course:
1. There is little to no loyalty from the top down. Pastors, CEO's, supervisors, and middle management are only concerned about you in relation to how it affects them.
2. Many of us have learned that we are replaceable, therefore we feel they are replaceable also.
3. Our lives are more about survival now and not about how things in our lives benefit the church or ministries. We used to go to nightly revivals and put vacations and other things on hold. Today we need vacations not only from work, but from church so we can get some rest.

Just a few of my thoughts.

Blessings, Rhonda