Anyone else?

[giftofgrace]

Ok, lately alot of my views have changed on some spiritual issues. Not because it was told to me, not because Ive been backslidden, not because Ive been burned or rebellious. But because I have desired to get closer to God, and have been fervently asking God for wisdom, for understanding of the scriptures and the truth.

For a while a couple of things have just not felt right to me, this became more evident while I was at bible college this past semester. The superficiality I experienced just made me long for more. I found myself thinking sitting through classes like "altar counseling" while the instructor was up there teaching us how to properly "pray a backslider through" and "watching for quivering lips", there has to be more.

First of all, what Ive been taught since Ive been in church but never really contemplated it too much is the common doctrine of "unless they have spoken in tongues they are not a christian". Witnessing, and coming into contact with loads of professing christians who actually truly acted like christians, shining with the love of Christ on their faces, in their actions and words compared to some of the "tongue talkers" who acted less than loveable..time after time, I finally became convicted that this just cannot be true.

Not that I don't want to believe it or am basing just on how I feel. This would break my heart. I would become very confused just thinking, how can I walk around and proclaim every woman who is wearing pants automatically MUST not be saved or have a "real" relationship with God? Forget that she gave me a big smile and said God bless you, after all she did have pants on, makeup, and jewelry. She goes to that church where they seem to have their doctrine pretty bibically based, seem to love and care for their fellow men, actively are involved in programs that help further the Kingdom of God and the reach the community around them, yet they don't jump around and speak in tongues, the women wear pants and jewelry, and the men have moustaches, so they MUST not be true.

I now believe that we are saved through the CROSS, the death of Christ, His grace alone, and when a person believes and TRULY repents. Not just feeling sorry or acknowledging their sin, but truly having the desire to turn away from and live a life consecrated unto God, and acting on it. I also believe salvation is a process, and he who endures to the end shall be saved (meaning REPENTANCE) and I do believe God accepts this. It just seems that it would be against the very nature of God to deny someone once they have a true repentant heart, but may not have spoken in tongues. You may say I'm wrong, maybe I am, but personally as of today I am convinced of this.

MY personal experience with God was an initial peace, which then led to church attendance, baptism ,then few weeks later I was baptised with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues. But I know that not EVERYONE has the same experience. I know that I "forbid not" to speak in tongues, probably every day. I do believe in it and believe all believers should seek after it, but I am not totally kicking those who have never experienced it out of the Body of Christ. If it is rejected or someone professing to be a christian doesnt want it, that's another story. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want it, and it may be an issue of the heart. So all we can do is pray for those people. Not condem them and deem them UNSAVED all the time, I feel this is putting outselves in a severe judgement seat.

Now personally, I still have a conviction against wearing pants, whether its NECESSARY FOR SALVATION or not, which I know it's not. I still feel personally convicted, so I obey. I have a personal conviction on makeup, jewelry, and cutting my hair, out of obedience. Unlike before, I now see these things as simply personal conviction, I obey out of obedience, I don't see anything wrong with obeying them even if unnecessary, if it pleases God I will do it. Yet if someone does not have these convictions does NOT mean they are necessarily wrong. I personally have a conviction against TV & movies, not because of standards or that it's preached in my church, but because I personally do not agree with it. To me personally it's a separation issue. I do believe very strongly in being "separate" not giving the appearance of evil, being separated from the world, which is by the fruit of the Spirit that we show the world.

Yet since I believe these things, I do not judge if someone does not have the exact same convictions as me, as I did before. I believe God will lead a willing open heart into His perfect will. And I pray for that, when I pray for others, instead of condemning, bashing them, or making them feel unworthy or inadequate in my pentecostal circle. I believe once we have a true repentant heart towards God, we are receive into the body of Christ. I also believe the baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues IS a promise to whosoever will seek after it, and I encourage it and believe in it wholeheartedly. I believe once you are a child of God you should naturally be baptised, symbolizing the death and burial, for there should be no reason why you shouldnt want to.

Basically this is the conclusion of my spiritial journey that I have been on the past few weeks, going through sorrow and confusion and questions and just wanting clarity and truth. God has been faithful in answering the deepest questions in my heart. I just want Jesus, I am sick of superficiality and conflict and haughtiness, don't we have enough of it?

Anyone else see where I am coming from?

[Cindy]

It is very difficult to read your post, because all the sentences run together.

[giftofgrace]

Sorry, I wrote it very fast and was rushing.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by giftofgrace

Sorry, I wrote it very fast and was rushing.

I understand, I did get the gist of it. And we should all search the scripture for ourselves about our relationship with God. And what we believe.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I'll break it up for you, to make it more readable:

Originally Posted by giftofgrace

Ok, lately alot of my views have changed on some spiritual issues. Not because it was told to me, not because Ive been backslidden, not because Ive been burned or rebellious. But because I have desired to get closer to God, and have been fervently asking God for wisdom, for understanding of the scriptures and the truth.

For a while a couple of things have just not felt right to me, this became more evident while I was at bible college this past semester. The superficiality I experienced just made me long for more. I found myself thinking sitting through classes like "altar counseling" while the instructor was up there teaching us how to properly "pray a backslider through" and "watching for quivering lips", there has to be more.

First of all, what Ive been taught since Ive been in church but never really contemplated it too much is the common doctrine of "unless they have spoken in tongues they are not a christian". Witnessing, and coming into contact with loads of professing christians who actually truly acted like christians, shining with the love of Christ on their faces, in their actions and words compared to some of the "tongue talkers" who acted less than loveable..time after time, I finally became convicted that this just cannot be true.

Not that I don't want to believe it or am basing just on how I feel. This would break my heart. I would become very confused just thinking, how can I walk around and proclaim every woman who is wearing pants automatically MUST not be saved or have a "real" relationship with God? Forget that she gave me a big smile and said God bless you, after all she did have pants on, makeup, and jewelry. She goes to that church where they seem to have their doctrine pretty bibically based, seem to love and care for their fellow men, actively are involved in programs that help further the Kingdom of God and the reach the community around them, yet they don't jump around and speak in tongues, the women wear pants and jewelry, and the men have moustaches, so they MUST not be true.

I now believe that we are saved through the CROSS, the death of Christ, His grace alone, and when a person believes and TRULY repents. Not just feeling sorry or acknowledging their sin, but truly having the desire to turn away from and live a life consecrated unto God, and acting on it. I also believe salvation is a process, and he who endures to the end shall be saved (meaning REPENTANCE) and I do believe God accepts this. It just seems that it would be against the very nature of God to deny someone once they have a true repentant heart, but may not have spoken in tongues. You may say I'm wrong, maybe I am, but personally as of today I am convinced of this.

MY personal experience with God was an initial peace, which then led to church attendance, baptism ,then few weeks later I was baptised with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues. But I know that not EVERYONE has the same experience. I know that I "forbid not" to speak in tongues, probably every day. I do believe in it and believe all believers should seek after it, but I am not totally kicking those who have never experienced it out of the Body of Christ. If it is rejected or someone professing to be a christian doesnt want it, that's another story. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want it, and it may be an issue of the heart. So all we can do is pray for those people. Not condem them and deem them UNSAVED all the time, I feel this is putting outselves in a severe judgement seat.

Now personally, I still have a conviction against wearing pants, whether its NECESSARY FOR SALVATION or not, which I know it's not. I still feel personally convicted, so I obey. I have a personal conviction on makeup, jewelry, and cutting my hair, out of obedience. Unlike before, I now see these things as simply personal conviction, I obey out of obedience, I don't see anything wrong with obeying them even if unnecessary, if it pleases God I will do it. Yet if someone does not have these convictions does NOT mean they are necessarily wrong. I personally have a conviction against TV & movies, not because of standards or that it's preached in my church, but because I personally do not agree with it. To me personally it's a separation issue. I do believe very strongly in being "separate" not giving the appearance of evil, being separated from the world, which is by the fruit of the Spirit that we show the world.

Yet since I believe these things, I do not judge if someone does not have the exact same convictions as me, as I did before. I believe God will lead a willing open heart into His perfect will. And I pray for that, when I pray for others, instead of condemning, bashing them, or making them feel unworthy or inadequate in my pentecostal circle. I believe once we have a true repentant heart towards God, we are receive into the body of Christ. I also believe the baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues IS a promise to whosoever will seek after it, and I encourage it and believe in it wholeheartedly. I believe once you are a child of God you should naturally be baptised, symbolizing the death and burial, for there should be no reason why you shouldnt want to.

Basically this is the conclusion of my spiritial journey that I have been on the past few weeks, going through sorrow and confusion and questions and just wanting clarity and truth. God has been faithful in answering the deepest questions in my heart. I just want Jesus, I am sick of superficiality and conflict and haughtiness, don't we have enough of it?

Anyone else see where I am coming from?

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by giftofgrace

Ok, lately alot of my views have changed on some spiritual issues. Not because it was told to me, not because Ive been backslidden, not because Ive been burned or rebellious. But because I have desired to get closer to God, and have been fervently asking God for wisdom, for understanding of the scriptures and the truth.

For a while a couple of things have just not felt right to me, this became more evident while I was at bible college this past semester. The superficiality I experienced just made me long for more. I found myself thinking sitting through classes like "altar counseling" while the instructor was up there teaching us how to properly "pray a backslider through" and "watching for quivering lips", there has to be more.

First of all, what Ive been taught since Ive been in church but never really contemplated it too much is the common doctrine of "unless they have spoken in tongues they are not a christian". Witnessing, and coming into contact with loads of professing christians who actually truly acted like christians, shining with the love of Christ on their faces, in their actions and words compared to some of the "tongue talkers" who acted less than loveable..time after time, I finally became convicted that this just cannot be true.

Not that I don't want to believe it or am basing just on how I feel. This would break my heart. I would become very confused just thinking, how can I walk around and proclaim every woman who is wearing pants automatically MUST not be saved or have a "real" relationship with God? Forget that she gave me a big smile and said God bless you, after all she did have pants on, makeup, and jewelry. She goes to that church where they seem to have their doctrine pretty bibically based, seem to love and care for their fellow men, actively are involved in programs that help further the Kingdom of God and the reach the community around them, yet they don't jump around and speak in tongues, the women wear pants and jewelry, and the men have moustaches, so they MUST not be true.

I now believe that we are saved through the CROSS, the death of Christ, His grace alone, and when a person believes and TRULY repents. Not just feeling sorry or acknowledging their sin, but truly having the desire to turn away from and live a life consecrated unto God, and acting on it. I also believe salvation is a process, and he who endures to the end shall be saved (meaning REPENTANCE) and I do believe God accepts this. It just seems that it would be against the very nature of God to deny someone once they have a true repentant heart, but may not have spoken in tongues. You may say I'm wrong, maybe I am, but personally as of today I am convinced of this.

MY personal experience with God was an initial peace, which then led to church attendance, baptism ,then few weeks later I was baptised with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues. But I know that not EVERYONE has the same experience. I know that I "forbid not" to speak in tongues, probably every day. I do believe in it and believe all believers should seek after it, but I am not totally kicking those who have never experienced it out of the Body of Christ. If it is rejected or someone professing to be a christian doesnt want it, that's another story. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want it, and it may be an issue of the heart. So all we can do is pray for those people. Not condem them and deem them UNSAVED all the time, I feel this is putting outselves in a severe judgement seat.

Now personally, I still have a conviction against wearing pants, whether its NECESSARY FOR SALVATION or not, which I know it's not. I still feel personally convicted, so I obey. I have a personal conviction on makeup, jewelry, and cutting my hair, out of obedience. Unlike before, I now see these things as simply personal conviction, I obey out of obedience, I don't see anything wrong with obeying them even if unnecessary, if it pleases God I will do it. Yet if someone does not have these convictions does NOT mean they are necessarily wrong. I personally have a conviction against TV & movies, not because of standards or that it's preached in my church, but because I personally do not agree with it. To me personally it's a separation issue. I do believe very strongly in being "separate" not giving the appearance of evil, being separated from the world, which is by the fruit of the Spirit that we show the world.

Yet since I believe these things, I do not judge if someone does not have the exact same convictions as me, as I did before. I believe God will lead a willing open heart into His perfect will. And I pray for that, when I pray for others, instead of condemning, bashing them, or making them feel unworthy or inadequate in my pentecostal circle. I believe once we have a true repentant heart towards God, we are receive into the body of Christ. I also believe the baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues IS a promise to whosoever will seek after it, and I encourage it and believe in it wholeheartedly. I believe once you are a child of God you should naturally be baptised, symbolizing the death and burial, for there should be no reason why you shouldnt want to.

Basically this is the conclusion of my spiritial journey that I have been on the past few weeks, going through sorrow and confusion and questions and just wanting clarity and truth. God has been faithful in answering the deepest questions in my heart. I just want Jesus, I am sick of superficiality and conflict and haughtiness, don't we have enough of it?

Anyone else see where I am coming from?

I love to see this. It looks like God is working in your life. Continue after him and you will find great peace and rest in his work in your life.

True salvation always results in life change. You are having problems with getting the doctrine to line up with scripture and even basic common sense. That is because much of the foundation of the doctrine you have learned is wrong. Allow Jesus Christ to be your foundation and you will never regret it.

[KWSS1976]

Let me ask you giftofgrace do you believe that baptism saves you if you do I have another question for ya...

[giftofgrace]

Not physically water, no. I believe we should after conversion. On the other hand, if someone refused baptism, that would show that there is something not quite right, I mean after all why would you not want to be baptised. Thats my view on that.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by giftofgrace

Not physically water, no. I believe we should after conversion. On the other hand, if someone refused baptism, that would show that there is something not quite right, I mean after all why would you not want to be baptised. Thats my view on that.

I don't think there has ever been a real Christian who refused baptism.

[giftofgrace]

Exactly. I have the same view on the baptism in the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues..