Location: just north of the celtics red sox and patriots go baby!
Posts: 730
Re: Mooney Guns for "Secret" Meeting in Detroit?
If the meeting did include tft and rj then it is becoming clear what we are talking about, you can call them progressive thinkers or consensus builders. I choose to call them compromisers, IMO, great speakers, orators, whatever . If they want to do this, then start their own org. dont corrupt the one youre in.
I, personally, am not surprised by Mooney's message. If you remember, he had the Steadfast conference at his church...that conference was all about holiness and keeping the Apostolic message.
However, I do not think that a campmeeting was the place for this...what about the people who came to be uplifted and encouraged by the Word of God???? I would have left depressed and felt like I had just been railed at! No thank you, I left that stuff a long time ago!!!
__________________
"Just a sinner saved by grace!"
In linking the Emerging Church movement to the new generation of believers, even within the Apostolic church movement, Mooney speaks against those who say the Holy Ghost and water baptism is not necessary. He says of those drifting that Pentecost must come to the point to, and be prepared to, "cut it's losses".
He also links the loss of holiness and righteousness to the "dumbing down of America", and the inability to grasp "big ideas", and demonic activity.
Mooney states that one cannot go to sleep with "snakes in the house". He proclaims that false prophets "are among us."
He asks "Who are these "progressive" theologians who are wanting to lead us away from Pentecost? ... I'm not going with you!"
Does anyone know that the attendees of this "secret" meeting (Which apparently is not so secret anymore) are actually denying the necessity of the Holy Ghost and water baptism?
In fact, does anyone, including Bro. Mooney (A man that I highly respect, by the way) know for a fact what was discussed at this secret meeting? Was anyone involved in the bashing of these men actually at the meeting?
I have no skin in this game, since I left the UPC years ago, but it seems that there is a monumental amount of "conclusion jumping" going on here.
From what I see, it's assumed that these "daddy's boys" are going to deny Acts 2:38, lead their churches down the path of unrighteousness, pull the churches out of the organization, and even possibly become serial killers.
Not sure that's what's happening at all.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
I, personally, am not surprised by Mooney's message. If you remember, he had the Steadfast conference at his church...that conference was all about holiness and keeping the Apostolic message.
However, I do not think that a campmeeting was the place for this...what about the people who came to be uplifted and encouraged by the Word of God???? I would have left depressed and felt like I had just been railed at! No thank you, I left that stuff a long time ago!!!
Grace, I know what you're saying. However, often whenever I hear people talking about being upset because they really just wanted to be uplifted and encouraged and not feel railed at, it sometimes makes me think of 2 Tim:
3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
4: 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
I do not know you well enough to even begin to accuse you of this personally, and I do recognize that we must be careful in how we apply and preach the Word. However, at the end of the day, the Bible is very clear that it is to be used in ways that often include rebuke and chastisement. That goes against what we want sometimes, and certainly flies in the face of where the church is headed, but I just get nervous whenever I hear people getting upset because all they wanted was uplifting messages and did not want rebuke or correction.
Again, I' not accusing you in particular, this post just kind of touched on what I hear a lot these days.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Grace, I know what you're saying. However, often whenever I hear people talking about being upset because they really just wanted to be uplifted and encouraged and not feel railed at, it sometimes makes me think of 2 Tim:
3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
4: 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
I do not know you well enough to even begin to accuse you of this personally, and I do recognize that we must be careful in how we apply and preach the Word. However, at the end of the day, the Bible is very clear that it is to be used in ways that often include rebuke and chastisement. That goes against what we want sometimes, and certainly flies in the face of where the church is headed, but I just get nervous whenever I hear people getting upset because all they wanted was uplifting messages and did not want rebuke or correction.
Again, I' not accusing you in particular, this post just kind of touched on what I hear a lot these days.
I would have to agree with GA on this one, TS.
Reason being - a collective meeting of folks from different churches, with different idiosyncracies is not the place to be preaching your gripes, as it were.
I would daresay that most of the people in that meeting had NO idea there was a secret meeting, and probably didn't even care.
In my humble opinion, a camp meeting is not the place to preach standards, personal convictions, or personal vendettas. It's a place to go for encouragement, uplifting, and general reinforcement of one's faith.
There's a WHOLE lot of Bible one can preach and be anointed, and the standards should be preached by individual pastors in their respective churches, and the railing against a group of men who are "going charismatic" should be reserved for the boardroom.
Again, in my humble opinion......
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
Grace, I know what you're saying. However, often whenever I hear people talking about being upset because they really just wanted to be uplifted and encouraged and not feel railed at, it sometimes makes me think of 2 Tim:
3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
4: 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
I do not know you well enough to even begin to accuse you of this personally, and I do recognize that we must be careful in how we apply and preach the Word. However, at the end of the day, the Bible is very clear that it is to be used in ways that often include rebuke and chastisement. That goes against what we want sometimes, and certainly flies in the face of where the church is headed, but I just get nervous whenever I hear people getting upset because all they wanted was uplifting messages and did not want rebuke or correction.
Again, I' not accusing you in particular, this post just kind of touched on what I hear a lot these days.
Don't you think these verses apply to actual sin? Adultery, fornication, stealing, cheating, lying, etc? Paul dealt with churches that were putting up with adultery and fornication and doing nothing about it.
Too often our pulpits are used as places for men to air their personal opinions and grievances. If someone had brought a sinner to this meeting, hoping to introduce them to Jesus, do they need to hear about the in-squabbling of an organization? That might have been the only opportunity some people ever had to be introduced to a Pentecostal church. Hopefully they got a good impression.
I agree that campmeetings are not the place for this.
Reason being - a collective meeting of folks from different churches, with different idiosyncracies is not the place to be preaching your gripes, as it were.
I would daresay that most of the people in that meeting had NO idea there was a secret meeting, and probably didn't even care.
In my humble opinion, a camp meeting is not the place to preach standards, personal convictions, or personal vendettas. It's a place to go for encouragement, uplifting, and general reinforcement of one's faith.
There's a WHOLE lot of Bible one can preach and be anointed, and the standards should be preached by individual pastors in their respective churches, and the railing against a group of men who are "going charismatic" should be reserved for the boardroom.
Again, in my humble opinion......
MP, I understand some of what's being said here. I was trying to discuss this in a broader sense than the specific example given here. I was not there, nor have I heard what all was said. Perhaps I should not have responded in this particular thread.
However, I do strongly feel that in a general sense, we do run the risk of forgetting what 2 Tim says the Bible was intended for in Chapter 3...and what it will be used for in Chapter 4.
I do not know that personal gripes and vendettas were preached. I never want to hear that at a campmeeting or anywhere else for that matter.
What I do have a problem with is the notion that we should be telling men of God what "type" of message to preach at a given place. I much rather men of God have the freedom to preach what God laid on their hearts and what was borne out of prayer and fasting and sudying. If it should correct and reprove me as opposed to making me feel good, there is certainly a chance that that may be what is needed. It certainly would not be unBiblical.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Don't you think these verses apply to actual sin? Adultery, fornication, stealing, cheating, lying, etc? Paul dealt with churches that were putting up with adultery and fornication and doing nothing about it.
Too often our pulpits are used as places for men to air their personal opinions and grievances. If someone had brought a sinner to this meeting, hoping to introduce them to Jesus, do they need to hear about the in-squabbling of an organization? That might have been the only opportunity some people ever had to be introduced to a Pentecostal church. Hopefully they got a good impression.
I agree that campmeetings are not the place for this.
Again, I go back to the idea that I am making a general statement here. I have never been a proponent of in-squabbling over the pulpit. However, I am also not of the opinion that the purpose of preaching is to always make everybody feel good and to leave good impressions. It just worries me that that is where we are headed.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Again, I go back to the idea that I am making a general statement here. I have never been a proponent of in-squabbling over the pulpit. However, I am also not of the opinion that the purpose of preaching is to always make everybody feel good and to leave good impressions. It just worries me that that is where we are headed.
I agree with you there, completely. Sin must always be preached against (true sin, not opinions ). Our society, including the Christian world, is getting much too tolerant of fornication, perversion, and not insisting that Christians live an honest and upright life. This must always be preached, and reproof will come into it when people begin living their lives in this way.
I think the 'itching ears' he refers to applies to people who no longer want to hear true sin preached against. "If my daughter wants to move in with her boyfriend, it's nobody's business." That type of attitude.
I am Scott Phillips. I posted the message linked here on this page.
I can speak from a man under 40, Minister in the UPC, he spoke to the issues and mirrored my feelings precisely.
If you don't like the UPC, Acts 2:38, Holiness Lifestyle, just leave.
And if these cool brilliant talents boys who have one claim to fame and that being nepotism, why take a church who was built on this foundation... and STEAL IT because daddy don't have the guts to tell you no...
And go prove your method's on their merits, rather than piggy backing your doctrine and leading good people into darkness.
Mooney is a Good Man of God who is standing against this evil, dark, deceptive spirit of compromise.
The difference between Satans' Words to Eve and God's were three letters, one small word.....
NOT
And that little twist stole paradise and damned humanity to hell. Trying to use a philosophical approach to spiritual, biblical matters demonstrates the father of the doctrines born of such.
If your interested in my personal thought process, you can read my blog... I have been quite fervently dealing with these issues over the past few months.
). Our society, including the Christian world, is getting much too tolerant of fornication, perversion, and not insisting that Christians live an honest and upright life. This must always be preached, and reproof will come into it when people begin living their lives in this way.
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