Con-to-Lib "Hybrid" Churches: Let's be Honest - Page 2

Jason B · #11 07-15-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

what happens in these "hybrid" churches is a picture of the ugliest of carnality. Pleasing God is back seat to new-found so-called freedoms. It's like the rebellious 18-year old who has the world to his own, but the entire, or half the church is that 18-year old. And "rebellion" in any degree isn't good.

From what I have seen this is absolutely the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Do you know a church that has made this transition well?

No

Aquila · #12 07-15-2009, 07:08 PM

Here's a thought...

If they can't live for Jesus without the legalism... they never truly had Jesus. All we're seeing is the ugly reality that religious tradition was able to hide.

Just a thought.

Jason B · #13 07-15-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's a thought...

If they can't live for Jesus without the legalism... they never truly had Jesus.

I completly agree.

Aquila · #14 07-15-2009, 07:25 PM

This is the express danger of legalism. It codifies styles, manners, and customs that eventually become irrelevant to a society. After one or two generations are brow beaten into putting their trust in these codes things naturally take their course and change. When this change happens, the people are left not knowing what to do or how to truly govern themselves by Christian principles.

The issue with these churches isn't that they began to change (everything changes). The issue is that this is ultimately what legalism can do to a body of believers when it's run it's course.

berkeley · #15 07-15-2009, 07:41 PM

fixed my browser.

Anyway....been there, done that. From a legalist ( not all UC's are legalists ) to lawless. Threw out the T-shirt.I am in between somewhere. The less I hear standards preached with the focus shifted to Jesus, His salvation, His love for me... the more conservative I desire to live. * shrugs *

GrowingPains · #16 07-15-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I have to agree with a point made above. It normally takes years.

But here's a thought... if a church falls into absolute spiritual chaos once the rules are gone it doesn't mean that the rules were good for them. In fact it testifies to the fact that the "standards" only taught them to live for the rules... not Jesus. When a person is seeking to live for Jesus they don't need rules. Sure, they might not dress ultra-con, they might have trimmed hair, they might wear a little makeup, they might have a glass of wine with dinner on occasion, or smoke a cigar at their son's birth - but they won't conceivably embrace that which is truly a violation of God's Law.

This is an example of how "church" is actually harmful for so many Christians. The Bible doesn't command us to go to church, it admonishes us to embrace Christian fellowship. I'll take Christian fellowship over church any day.

I agree with these points. The reason why, when you take it away, the thing blows up is a testimony of itself. It's bothersome, and I suspect keeping many pastors insistent on their old ways.

GrowingPains · #17 07-15-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's a thought...

If they can't live for Jesus without the legalism... they never truly had Jesus. All we're seeing is the ugly reality that religious tradition was able to hide.

Just a thought.

I'm not sure I believe this... at least completely.
It's akin to a Mormon seeing the revelation of the Gospel of Christ. They usually become an atheist first. Their world has flipped upside down. Doesn't necessarily mean they never had a relationship with Christ, and we shouldn't use it as a test. We should do what we can to not be a stumbling block. Which is why more and more I'm inclined to believe these guys should be planting new churches instead of steering a Titanic around, resulting in heavy casualties.

GrowingPains · #18 07-15-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

fixed my browser.

Anyway....been there, done that. From a legalist ( not all UC's are legalists ) to lawless. Threw out the T-shirt.I am in between somewhere. The less I hear standards preached with the focus shifted to Jesus, His salvation, His love for me... the more conservative I desire to live. * shrugs *

Isn't that an amazing paradox! It's so true.

Yet some, throwing out standards, think separation ONLY means your heart, and that is has NOTHING to do with how you present your body. Talk about baby with the bath water.

Thanks for your contribution on this thread. This discussion not only interests me, it bothers/moves/frustrates me.

Justin · #19 07-16-2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's a thought...

If they can't live for Jesus without the legalism... they never truly had Jesus. All we're seeing is the ugly reality that religious tradition was able to hide.

Just a thought.

Amen and Amen.

DaveC519 · #20 07-16-2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan

fixed my browser.

Anyway....been there, done that. From a legalist ( not all UC's are legalists ) to lawless. Threw out the T-shirt.I am in between somewhere. The less I hear standards preached with the focus shifted to Jesus, His salvation, His love for me... the more conservative I desire to live. * shrugs *

I have found this to be true, as well. When I asked the Lord to take away from my heart the desires of this world, and place within it His desires, I found I began to live more conservatively by the leading of the Holy Ghost.