Book of Job is it an Allegory?

[Esther]

OneAccord brings some interesting thoughts that I think deserve it's own thread for discussion.

I don't think of Satan as some anti-god who has equal but opposite power as God. What God does for good, Satan can do for evil. If God can heal, Satan can make sick. If God fills with the Holy Ghost, Satan can possess. God talks, the devil talks, and so on. If that were true then Satan would be God's equal only at the opposite pole. And God has no equal.

Satans only weapon, IMO, against us is the power to decieve. If Satan can convince us he has this great and terrible power over us, then, well, he DOES have this great and terrible power over us. Deception is his only tool, and its very effective.

The story of Job is a good example. Satan, with God's permission, killed all of Jobs children, took all he had, and inflicted him with boils. Did he? Really?

In the end of the Book, Job had all his kids and his possessions. All was well, because none of it was actually taken in the first place. "And there came a MESSENGER unto Job, and said..." Job 1:14. Job heard, and believed, these messengers, became distraught, and hives, which erupted into boils, broke out on his body. The fact is, IMO, Job believed a lie. The reason for it all? To help Job discover his human fallacy of self-righteouness. Yes, even "perfect people" have faults, Job's was that he was a little too self-righteous. He spent alot of time talking about HIS "goodness" and HIS "righteousness". (In addition, there was a good deal of self-pity there too.) Job's victory was when he finally said, "Wherefore I abhor (hate) myself, and repent in dust and ashes." (42:6). If Job was so perfect, there would have been no need for him to repent. Once his "flaw" was discovered and corrected his trial ended.

But I'm off the topic. Satan deceived Job. Satan decieved Eve. If the devil can make people think he can possess them, then, he can. Or make them sick. Or do evil things. Its all deception. Read 2 Thess. 2:9-12, Eph. 4:14

Deception is a powerful tool. But many Christians (and Hollywood) has given Satan much more power than he really has.

Well, no, not exactly. I'm saying that, IMO, there was no "two sets of children". The children of the first chapter are the same children of the last chapter. 7 sons, 3 daughters. (1:2, 42:13). They never died. Job was only TOLD that they had died. No where in the Book of Job do we find evidence that had, in fact, died. Jobs substance (ie, livestock ) was doubled, but not his children. They were yet alive.

I believe this for a couple of reasons. Mainly because I don't think God, in his love and mercy, would allow Satan to kill Job's children in order to "win a bet" with the devil. The Bible says that Satans demons can and do transform themselves into "angels of light" for the purpose of deception. These messengers that informed Job of his calamities were just that... false messengers that decieved Job into thinking he had lost it all... including his children, who were all away at the time at the eldest sons house (1:13). How convenient it is for Satan to decieve when people are divided and separated. 1 Cor. 3:3

Compare the story of Job with 1 Kings 22:20-22. Satan, and, apparently sometimes God, uses evil spirits to decieve people in order to acheive a means.

2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

No, I find no evidence in the Scripture that supports the belief Job's children died in Job 1. I do find evidence that Satan decieved Job, and that theme is thru out the Bible. Satan, IMO, has NO power but to decieve. And does so thru what ever means is available to him, including false preachers and teachers.

Jobs boils? Hives. (2:7) Caused by extreme anxiety and remorse. I developed hives when my wife became sick. Two things relieved the itching: 1) Scratching (a "potsherd" would have been a great relief from the itching, but would have caused sores (boils). And 2) Powder. Job used ashes for relief, I used some kind of medicated powder.

[Esther]

A quiet place responded:

That's an interesting theory. I've always had difficulty with the idea of God killing Job's children, and then giving him more. To me, it wouldn't matter how many more children I had, children are not replaceable.

These verses, though, makes it seem as though he had 'different' children, because it talks about him naming them:

12And the LORD blessed(Q) the latter days of Job more than his beginning. And he had(R) 14,000 sheep, 6,000 camels, 1,000 yoke of oxen, and 1,000 female donkeys. 13He had also(S) seven sons and three daughters. 14And he called the name of the first daughter Jemimah, and the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-happuch. 15And in all the land there were no women so beautiful as Job’s daughters. And their father gave them an inheritance(T) among their brothers. 16And after this Job lived 140 years, and(U) saw his sons, and his sons’ sons, four generations. 17And Job died, an old man, and(V) full of days.

Doesn't necessarily refute your theory, just interesting wording.

What about his property losses? It was a messenger that told of those losses, too, right?

[Esther]

OA response:

Now this is an interesting discussion. This is why I come to AFF. Job started out with 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen (500 x 2 = 1000) and 500 she donkeys (Sorry some things I just won't type, my "conservatism" is showing!) He ended up with twice that. Simple. What was the purpose of all that substance? To get more substance. Those who tended Jobs livestock did exactly what they were suppose to do... buy sell, trade, etc., to get more substance. And, they obviously did quite well. The messengers SAID his livestock was taken. How do we know they were?

The naming. Job named only his DAUGHTERS in Job 42:14. Actually, I suspect he RENAMED his daughters which for some reason unknown to me, was a usual occurance in Bible times. Eve was not even given her name until AFTER the fall. She was originally called WOMAN (taken from man). After the fall, she became EVE (mother of all living- which brings up another point, but not here). Abrahams wife was Saria, until God promised she would have children (Sarah). Names were often changed AFTER some major event in a persons life. Jacob became Israel, Abram became Abraham, etc. The significance of the names of Jobs daughters? I don't know... I'd have work real hard to be that smart.

Interesting discussion. And I think Timmy said something that is worth considering. Maybe the Book of Job is a parable. An allegory to make a deeper point. I don't really think so, but Timmy could be right... He's pretty smart....

[Esther]

OA response:
Jobs daughters:

Jemina- "handsome as the day"
Kezia- superficies, the angle, (?) cassia (a bark that had a cinimon like aroma)
Keren-happich- the horn, child of beauty

Taken from http://www.christianityoasis.com/Keyword/BibleNames.htm

Perhaps, after his ordeal, Job had a renewed apprecaition for life and his family. He renamed them to express this new appreciation? Just a thought. My grandsons name is Seth. We call him "Little man". Maybe Job gave his daughters a nick name.

[Esther]

OA response:
Wow, this discussion, which, BTW, seems to have drifted from Timmy's orginal intent. (Sorry, Bro!) has got me to thinking. (I do that on occasion). Job was a perfect man. Yet, if I read the story right, I see some character flaws (self-righteousness and pity, a little judgmentalism). So maybe he wasn't so perfect afterall. But God said he was...and who am I to argue with God? Unless God ses perfection differently than I do.

I read somewhere that Michealangelo (Sorry, Mike's not from around here, so spelling may be off) once said that an uncut piece of stone was a perfect work of art. He said that because, until it is cut into, that stone has the potential of becoming anything he can make it into.

Sometimes, I think God sees us that way. As an uncut stone, willing to be molded into whatever He chooses us to be. In God's eyes we are perfect when we are willing to become nothing more than a lump of clay in the potters hands. We begin perfect... but become even more perfect by His touch. A diamond in the rough is perfect in its natural state. It takes the hands of a Master to let that diamond be seen. Job, too, was perfect in that he loved God and hated evil. Can anyone but Job be any more perfect than that? Loving God is to put your life into His hands and say, "Here I am, Lord... mold me". Oh, Lordy, I believe I'm gonna have me a spell!!!

[*AQuietPlace*]

I'm glad you started this thread, I was going to start a similar one.


My question - could the book of Job be a parable?

Is there anyone who would have a big problem with it being considered a parable, if so, why?

From some reading that I did yesterday, it seems that some scholars of the Talmud believed it was a parable.

[Irreligious]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I'm glad you started this thread, I was going to start a similar one.


My question - could the book of Job be a parable?

Is there anyone who would have a big problem with it being considered a parable, if so, why?

From some reading that I did yesterday, it seems that some scholars of the Talmud believed it was a parable.

I would have no problem at all and, in fact, I lean toward it being a parable, not because of the research, but because it contradicts the nature of God we see throughout the Bible. Sorry to be cynical, but I'm waiting for the crazies to show up and bomb you and the others for even suggesting this.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Irreligious

I would have no problem at all and, in fact, I lean toward it being a parable, not because of the research, but because it contradicts the nature of God we see throughout the Bible. Sorry to be cynical, but I'm waiting for the crazies to show up and bomb you and the others for even suggesting this.

I have no problem with it being a literal story or a parable. I also do not believe it, in any way, contradicts God's nature. The whole point and lesson of Job is summed up in the last few chapters with all of the versus that begin "Where were you....?".
It is God trying to describe to him that he (and us) simply cannot understand His nature and His reasons. He HAS reasons, but for Him to vocalize them and try to get us to understand them is not unlike us trying to teach Hindu philosophy to a amoeba or bacterium. In both cases it is nothing but frustration to the one doing the explaining.

[Praxeas]

I've never heard anyone claim Satan has equal power to God....

[Praxeas]

Or maybe it was a true story, but embellished a little to teach a lesson.

BTW parables are based on real life examples (not necessarily a real historical event)