Re: Capitol Hill gathering to inspire Muslim aggre
The message of extremism is neither one that I have been taught nor one that I support. It is there but does not represent Islam as written.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Among Christians we have the KKK, John Birch Society, inquisition, and white supremecists but they do not actually represent all Christians nor what I understand to be the spirit of Christ. Is this the same as the Shiites, terrorists, suicide bombers, etc. in Islam who may or may not represent the spirit of Muhammed?
Re: Capitol Hill gathering to inspire Muslim aggre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam
I am quite certain that what you think is 'telling' has no bearing on this discussion. "Chirstianity" as you so elequently put it has its own bloody past. The mixing of violence and religion is nether new nor is it limited to Islam. Pick any religion, put an extremist in charge, and violence follows. No matter what 'book' the extremists are holding. The "several hundred year old version" of "chirstianity" was still burning innocent women alive who were accused of witchcraft in our own country. Catholics and protestants in Ireland battled it out until just a few years ago. The list goes on and on for centuries and centuries. You don't know your church history - fine. Pretending that these things cannot, do not, and have never happened in the name of "the church" is self-delusional.
Putting checks in place is something our forefathers were wise in doing. For all of us. "Chirstians" too. Implying that a group of people who gather peacefully to pray "inspire agression" only reflects the aggression that you feel because they simply gathered. Aggression is a "fight or flight" mechanism that is triggered by fear. In this case the most likely cause of fear is simple ignorance. The demonstrated fear and ignorance thus reflect a measurable and observable lack of faith in your own path.
my major was history. believe me I know my history.
you speak truth about christianity of several hundered years ago.
now lets talk about Islam today. women being stoned for adultry.
children being killed by their fathers for wanting to look western (this happned in Dallas 2 years ago. The father is now back in Jordan or where ever he was from)
women being beaten with a cane for wanting a beer.
parents tossing battery acid on their daughters faces for the horrible sin of getting raped.
TODAY WalksinIslam. TODAY
RIGHT NOW. Not 2 hundred years ago. Not a century ago. RIGHT NOW TODAY It is perfectly acceptable in most Muslim nations to see these things.
They are not abbarant. They are within an accepted norm.
Beyond that Osama Bin Laden has an actual approval rating above 50% in MOST muslim nations.
TODAY IN AMERICA more than 15% of muslims think Suicide bombings are a good thing.
YOUR FAITH may not be much different than some historic past of Christianity, but the thing that is TELLING is that it is the PAST of Christianity and the PRESENT of Islam.
YOUR FAITH DEMANDS KILLING RIGHT NOW TODAY.
Mine does not.
They are not equal. Nor should Americans be forced to view them as equal.
Not until your imams decide they are wrong and provide a reinterpretation of your faith.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Re: Capitol Hill gathering to inspire Muslim aggre
LOL your answer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
my major was history. believe me I know my history.
you speak truth about christianity of several hundered years ago.
Furthermore I speak truth about any time or place in history that has had the misfortune to fall under church rule
now lets talk about Islam today. women being stoned for adultry.
It's in the bible too. Perhaps the bible should be re-written (again) and references to stoning should be removed.
children being killed by their fathers for wanting to look western (this happned in Dallas 2 years ago. The father is now back in Jordan or where ever he was from)
You reference a domestic violence case that happened in a muslim family from 2 years ago? Here are some recent cases for you to focus on:
A Maryland pastor has been charged with multiple counts of sexual child abuse. The Charles County Sheriffs Special Victims Unit arrested Tony Ray Malbrough, 44, of Indian Head, on January 18.
Charles County Sheriffs began investigating when they were contacted by a 14-year-old boy who reported he had been sexually abused by Malbrough, while receiving music lessons at Malbrough's home. Police say their investigators learned that the abuse occurred on multiple occasions over a period of years, and involved other children known to the 14-year-old victim. Police say at the time of the alleged abuse, Malbrough was a pastor at a church in Charles county.
It's another prison sentence for the pastor of a Woodlawn church accused of sexually abusing boys in his congregation. Gerald Griffith pleaded guilty Wednesday in Towson to child sexual abuse in a case involving five Baltimore County accusers.
A youth pastor was arrested at his church Thursday on charges he sexually abused a child, records show.Justin Ray Peterson, 31, was arrested at 2 p.m. at River of Life Church in Lutz, jail records show. He is a youth pastor at the church.
Sheriff's deputies in Louisiana made a third arrest Wednesday in the ongoing investigation of a case involving allegations of sexual abuse of children and animals at a Ponchatoula, La., church.
Austin Aaron Bernard III, 36, was arrested on a charge of aggravated rape of a child under the age of 13. Police said Bernard confessed to detectives that he had sex with a young girl in November 2002 and admitted to knowing about sexual acts involving children and a dog that occurred at Hosanna Church.
A frickin dog?
Former youth pastor Timothy Edmonds was sentenced to 10- to 20-years in prison for sexual abuse of a teenaged girl.
A pastor described by police as charismatic and controlling pleaded guilty Wednesday to numerous counts of child rape and molestation involving five young girls in Kitsap County.
In what the detective investigating it described as Missouri's biggest clergy sex-abuse to date, Shawn Davies, a 33-year-old former music and youth minister, was sentenced Jan. 12 to 20 years in prison for molesting children at First Baptist Church of Greenwood, Mo. Davies was convicted of 25 counts of abuse dating from 2003. Charges included statutory sodomy, furnishing pornographic material to minors, supplying liquor to minors, sexual misconduct with a child under the age of 14, use of a child in sexual performance and endangering the welfare of a child.
women being beaten with a cane for wanting a beer.
Current status of the referenced case, exampled as "intolerance" by a Muslim government: (said government who is majority Muslim but applies Sharia law only to other muslims where those of other faiths are free to do as they wish)
He said it was now up to the Pahang Islamic Religious Department to implement the punishment. The department's officials, who are like morality police, routinely conduct raids to catch people violating Islamic laws but most perpetrators are usually let off with fines.
Kartika has said previously she is ready to be caned.
The caning would be done with a thin stick on the back and would be largely symbolic rather than aimed at causing pain, unlike the caning of rapists and drug smugglers with a thick rattan stick on bare buttocks that causes the skin to break and leave scars.
But activists say even a gentle caning raises the broader question of whether such Islamic laws should intrude into Muslims' private lives and whether radical Islam is creeping into the judiciary.
Malaysia follows a dual-track justice system. Shariah laws apply to Muslims in all personal matters. Non-Muslims _ Chinese, Indians, Sikhs and other minorities _ are covered by civil laws, and are free to drink.
Only three states in Malaysia _ Pahang, Perlis and Kelantan _ impose caning for drinking alcohol. In the other 10 states it is punishable by a fine.
Except the caning did not happen yet did it? The case was not about "a random woman who wanted a beer". It was about a public figure, a star, who wanted to drink beer in public and the example that this conveyed. At any rate referencing something that "almost happened" pales in light of what does happen in christian churches and sunday schools TODAY FERD TODAY RIGHT NOW TODAY NOW NOW NOW lol.
parents tossing battery acid on their daughters faces for the horrible sin of getting raped.
Domestic violence does not happen in christianity ferd? You need some more headlines?
TODAY WalksinIslam. TODAY
TODAY ferdie TODAY abuses happen in christian churches, routinely, that have to be reported to and brought to justice by secular authorities.
RIGHT NOW. Not 2 hundred years ago. Not a century ago. RIGHT NOW TODAY It is perfectly acceptable in most Muslim nations to see these things.
They are not abbarant. They are within an accepted norm.
It is perfectly common in the US to see abuses of women and children in christian churches. Sadly cover-ups routinely happen in the christian churches themselves and outside, independent secular authorities have to be notified for these abuses to be addressed. It is a good thing that a system is in place to address this.
Beyond that Osama Bin Laden has an actual approval rating above 50% in MOST muslim nations.
Not in his neighboring muslim nation of pakistan. Muslims are dying to fight off everything he represents. Kudos to American christians (good reagan supporters all) who propped him up, armed him, and then defacated him onto these poor people.
TODAY IN AMERICA more than 15% of muslims think Suicide bombings are a good thing.
Nearly 100% probably think that sending smallpox-contaminated blankets to the indians was a good thing too - after all it allowed our country to be settled and "cowboys and indians" is still a fun game after all. What people think does not make something right. Including what you think.
YOUR FAITH may not be much different than some historic past of Christianity, but the thing that is TELLING is that it is the PAST of Christianity and the PRESENT of Islam.
The PRESENT of christianity is still that abuses by the leadership of the church still happen and that secular authority is set in place to address them.
YOUR FAITH DEMANDS KILLING RIGHT NOW TODAY.
YOUR FAITH DEMANDS DIDDLING LITTLE BOYS AND GIRLS AND PETS RIGHT NOW TODAY lol are you kidding me?
Mine does not. they are not equal. Nor should Americans be forced to view them as equal.
No, I have to say, the dog thing is a new low Ferd. Definitely unequal.
Not until your imams decide they are wrong and provide a reinterpretation of your faith.
It goes without saying what your pastors need to do LOL
DISCLAIMER:IT IS FULLY WELL UNDERSTOOD THAT THE ACTIONS IN THE REFERENCED NEWS STORIES DO NOT REFLECT TRUE CHRISTIANITY. THE INTENT WAS TO DEMONSTRATE HOW SILLY IT IS TO TAKE HEADLINE STORIES AND APPLY THEM TO A FAITH, IN THIS CASE THE CHRISTIAN FAITH ACROSS THE BOARD.
Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 09-29-2009 at 07:37 PM.
Re: Capitol Hill gathering to inspire Muslim aggre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam
LOL your answer
DISCLAIMER:IT IS FULLY WELL UNDERSTOOD THAT THE ACTIONS IN THE REFERENCED NEWS STORIES DO NOT REFLECT TRUE CHRISTIANITY. THE INTENT WAS TO DEMONSTRATE HOW SILLY IT IS TO TAKE HEADLINE STORIES AND APPLY THEM TO A FAITH, IN THIS CASE THE CHRISTIAN FAITH ACROSS THE BOARD.
and yet in this long diatribe of yours you continue to compare 200+ year old christianity with modern Islam.
Further you use examples of what everyone in the west considers CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR to compare to accepted practice in the muslim world.
You call fathers killing their kids in Honor Killings in the muslim world "domestic violence" when in fact it isnt domestic violence, it is accepted practice.
Please note, in Christian nations, we dont have a thing called "honor killings".
If you kill your kids we lock you up. We call it criminal behavior.
Then we deal with this idea that there CAN be a religious law that applies to Muslims. If you are a muslim, you can be caned for wanting to drink a beer in public. YOU DEFEND THIS. You say it is ok because it is just for Muslims.
Sorry Walks, that is just INSANE. It is proof positive that Islam is a sick, demented and violent religion that subjugates people and is a danger to the world.
Islam on its best day is NEVER peaceful. you have proven the point in your posts in this thread.
YOU compare your faith to what Christianity was more than 200 years ago when it was a violent religion. YOU compare your faith to criminal behavior in the west and use that to justify your faith.
YOU point out that adhearants to your faith are subject to laws that end if beatings for very minor transgressions.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Re: Capitol Hill gathering to inspire Muslim aggre
Your answer. I'm leaving for vacation. You may have the thread LOL then you can post for me while I am gone since you like to post words on my behalf anyway. I'll settle up if I need to when I get back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
and yet in this long diatribe of yours you continue to compare 200+ year old christianity with modern Islam.
This "diatribe" was a spoof and noted to be a spoof. I certainly compared the wrong actions of those who (currently) claim to act under the umbrella of Islam to the wrong actions of those who (currently) claim to act under the umbrella of christianity.
Further you use examples of what everyone in the west considers CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR to compare to accepted practice in the muslim world.
It certainly is not considered "criminal" behavior by the youth leaders and pastors who engage in it now is it? It is only you who advocates that this is "accepted" or "common" practice in the muslim world. Since you know no muslims, have never visited nor travelled to a muslim country, and have never lived in the muslim world perhaps you are not the best source nor the best qualified to declare publicly what is or is not "common" practice.
You call fathers killing their kids in Honor Killings in the muslim world "domestic violence" when in fact it isnt domestic violence, it is accepted practice.
I call family on family violence domestic violence no matter what the motive. I also note that family on family violence is more common in your backyard than it is in mine. Because I do live in the muslim world and in a muslim country and have also lived in (5) different states over there as well. Which gives me, based on experience and not loud, braying opinion, a basis for comparison and observation that you, from the seat of your recliner, do not enjoy nor can you claim
Please note, in Christian nations, we dont have a thing called "honor killings".
No you have "abortion doctor killings" or "gay killings" or just ramdom killings of little girls by sunday school teachers. Then pretend that what you "call it" makes one type of killing somehow "better" than another type of killing. Do you have a deep-seated need to be "better". I stipulate that you are "better". Does that make you happy and give you a feeling of satisfaction? Those of us who do not have that need to be or proclaim ourselves "better" are quite comfortable in our skins and in our faith.
If you kill your kids we lock you up. We call it criminal behavior.
Who is this We? Your boy-diddling pastors? Young girl diddling youth leaders? Suddenly you are the postor boy for the secular protection of society that has nothing to do with the church or christianity at all? I contend that laws were put in place years ago to protect the rest of us from abuses from the likes of you and minus those laws the likes of you would hunt down and exterminate the likes of me. For no reason at all but the difference in faith.
Then we deal with this idea that there CAN be a religious law that applies to Muslims. If you are a muslim, you can be caned for wanting to drink a beer in public. YOU DEFEND THIS. You say it is ok because it is just for Muslims.
I defended what? I summarized the application of Sharia law to Muslims by the Malaysian government. In Malaysia it is not allowed to publicly represent Islam and publicly violate the teachings of Islam.
Since you only read the screen name and nothing else I said earlier I will remind (this is probably a waste of time) you of earlier post that clearly specifies my views on separation of church and state and the comments regarding the need to protect that separation in our own country. Especially from the likes of rabid, frothing at the mouth christians like that big christian god warrier I posted earlier. I have never been to Malaysia, have no ties to Malaysia, and certainly defend nothing that Malaysians do to other Malaysians. I DID specifically state both sides in that separation of church and state thing. You must have forgotten that part. Maybe I used too many big words or something.
Sorry Walks, that is just INSANE. It is proof positive that Islam is a sick, demented and violent religion that subjugates people and is a danger to the world.
You proved positive what again? This is the broken part of your logic. You say that Islam is "sick and demented". Then the victims you example are MUSLIMS also. They also represent Islam and the practice of Islam. The problem is that you take the wrongs done by the perpetrators and claim that as Islam while forgetting that for every action there is an equal initiation of that action that is ALSO islam. Take your example. Do you deny that the Muslim woman who accepted the sentence for caning does not also represent Islam and that she is doing something that she believes in to shine light on what she believes to be inequality in treatment by the authorities there? I claim her actions heroic and am proud to be associated with another Muslim who will stand up to her government in that way.
Islam on its best day is NEVER peaceful. you have proven the point in your posts in this thread.
The only point I made in these threads is that separation of church and state should be closely guarded from the likes of both sides. The rest of the so-called "points" that were "proven" were made up in your own mind since that is the only point that I made here. When you prove points to yourself does yourself answer? There is medication for that.
YOU compare your faith to what Christianity was more than 200 years ago when it was a violent religion. YOU compare your faith to criminal behavior in the west and use that to justify your faith.
I compared the mistreatment of citizens under Sharia law to mistreatment of citizens under church law with strong kudos for our forefathers for separating the two. Also with strong note that this separation must be protected and guarded. I also noted that both are wrong. A history degree must not require basic reading and comprehension skills.
YOU point out that adhearants to your faith are subject to laws that end if beatings for very minor transgressions.
I pointed out in your particular example the Malaysian government in (2) of (10) states subjects those who practice Islam for symbolic canings if they profess Islam then publicly violate its teachings. Actually, a news service pointed it out. I cut and pasted it. I did not comment on whether I personally believe that this is right or wrong (since I did not comment of course you feel free to comment for me thus putting the words in my mouth that you want to hear) and stand by earlier discussion on the separation of church law and state law (which you missed since you prefer to post what YOU believe I believe rather than comment on what I actually said I believe).
Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 09-30-2009 at 10:19 AM.
Re: Capitol Hill gathering to inspire Muslim aggre
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY
Has anyone heard anything about this?
I don't know if this is true or not, but it doesn't sound too far fetched. If true, this could be considered the same as failing to pay taxes... which people do jail time for.
Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staft Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.
Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."
I would like to see this followed up and see if this is true. I have heard there would be a penalty imposed for not having insurance. Which makes a lot of sense since the folks don't have money for insurance they are going to find it for a penalty???
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