Lot's Revelation of Grace

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I don't see how it is possible for a woman to rape a man????????????????????????????????????

And yet that is what happened in the case of Lot. If one participant is not capable of consent it is rape.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

That's not the point.

Prove that he married a relative, and then we'll talk.

Ed, there was no one other than a relative for Seth to marry. Adam and Eve were his parents. Cain and Able had to marry sisters. Seth had to marry either a sister or a niece or maybe a first cousin.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

HALF sister, and ftr, Lot having sex with his daughters was not within the confines of marriage. Btw, I am just about through with you arguing that incest with ones daughter is okay in the eyes of God.

How far are you willing to take that argument?

The logical conclusion is that if God okayed it for Lot, it's okay for guys to have sex with their daughters today.

That is downright screwy.

Bump for Dred Baron.

[EA]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Ed, there was no one other than a relative for Seth to marry. Adam and Eve were his parents. Cain and Able had to marry sisters. Seth had to marry either a sister or a niece or maybe a first cousin.

Is that what the Bible says?

How old was Seth when he married? Whom did he marry?

Do you have proof?

Miz, you are filling in blanks, and that's dangerous.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Malarky.

Intent is everything.

Affection direction is everything.

Two people can commit the very same act only for one to be declared righteous, and the other unrighteous.

OK? how does that relate to your assertion that Lot committed sinful acts because of where he lived but Daniel did not?

Your assuming an awful lot about our brother Lot that the Scripture doesn't say.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

OK? how does that relate to your assertion that Lot committed sinful acts because of where he lived but Daniel did not?

Your assuming an awful lot about our brother Lot that the Scripture doesn't say.

No assumption at all.

Read the Bible narrative.

Daniel's choices are completely opposite of Lots.

And, again, one was surrounded by filth by choice, the other by compulsion.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

And yet that is what happened in the case of Lot. If one participant is not capable of consent it is rape.

I admit it was akin to rape. But I still believe his actions contributed.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

HALF sister, and ftr, Lot having sex with his daughters was not within the confines of marriage. Btw, I am just about through with you arguing that incest with ones daughter is okay in the eyes of God.

How far are you willing to take that argument?

The logical conclusion is that if God okayed it for Lot, it's okay for guys to have sex with their daughters today.

That is downright screwy.

Sorry Ed missed that post.

Would you say it is OK for someone to marry their half sister?

I don't think having relations with one's daughter is okay. But neither do I think marrying a half sister is OK. This was not prohibited at that point.

Ed, we can't judge everything that happened at that time from our perspective. Could you go out and rip a nursing baby from its mother and slaughter them with the sword? Yet God commanded that.

I am not saying everything Lot did was positive, I just said God declared hi righteous.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Yes. First, you assume that you know every time you sin. In the OT their were sacrifices for sins of ignorance, If Jesus fulfilled all then he is the sacrifice for sins committed in ignorance as well.

I reject the idea that I have to live perfectly to be declared righteous before God. I am righteous because he has declared me so, not because I can be righteous on my own.

And no that is not an excuse to sin.

I'm not assuming I know every time I sin. But if I know I have sinned, then I must repent or I am not righteous. And God is gracious. He gives space to repent.

I reject the idea that you can knowingly sin and continue in sin and be declared righteous before God.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I am not saying everything Lot did was positive, I just said God declared him righteous.

If you would replace the word positive with the word righteous I think we could reach a concensus.