Sin, Life & Death

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

God does not need to be two persons for the Son to talk to the Father. I am not trying to assert this. I am trying to assert that in this oneness view, Jesus prayed to Jesus. This does not disprove oneness, but it is a logical consequence of oneness doctrine.

Oh, your point is Jesus prayed to Jesus. Okay. I agree. What is so wrong about that, though? Why is that so shocking? Answer: our comparison with human persons.

Jesus as a man prayed to Jesus as God. And He so completely manifested as a man that it was genuine humanity genuinely needing Deity. So, since it is humanity genuinely needing deity, it is not as people think it is to say Jesus prayed to Jesus.

That sounds odd to us because, AGAIN, we are comparing this to a human person. Since it sounds odd to see a human person talk to himself in this same manner, we assume it is odd for God to do that. But we cannot perfectly manifest as another "species" and then speak to that other one like God did.

We're so biased due to our assumptions that make us base everything form OUR perspective. And it makes us feel odd about something we really cannot conceive in our understanding properly enough.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But why is that so shocking? Jesus as a man prayed to Jesus as God. And He so completely manifested as a man that it was genuine humanity genuinely needing Deity. So, since it is humanity genuinely needing deity, it is not as people think it is to say Jesus prayed to Jesus.

That sounds odd to uis because, AGAIN< we are comparing this to a human person. Since it sounds odd to see a human person talk to himself in this same manner, we assume it is odd for God to do that. But we cannot perfectly manifest as another "species" and then speak to that other one like God did.

We're so biased due to our assumptions that make us base everything form OUR perspective. And it makes us feel odd about something we really cannot conceive in our understanding properly enough.

Thank you, that is what I have been trying to say all along. Apparently it isn't just other people that are bothered by Jesus praying to Jesus, I think oneness people don't like the notion much either. But it is there. I don't really have a problem with it, I was just trying to point it out. Though, I was under the impression that you was having a problem with me saying that oneness teaches that Jesus prayed to Jesus. I suppose I usually have a poor way of wording stuff but I try to be thorough.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Thank you, that is what I have been trying to say all along. Apparently it isn't just other people that are bothered by Jesus praying to Jesus, I think oneness people don't like the notion much either. But it is there. I don't really have a problem with it, I was just trying to point it out. Though, I was under the impression that you was having a problem with me saying that oneness teaches that Jesus prayed to Jesus. I suppose I usually have a poor way of wording stuff but I try to be thorough.

Sorry for missing your point. It is true that this bothers some. But it is because they cannot stop thinking of how silly it would be for one human person to talk to oneself, not realizing it is not the same at all.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sorry for missing your point. It is true that this bothers some. But it is because they cannot stop thinking of how silly it would be for one human person to talk to oneself, not realizing it is not the same at all.

Agreed, and sorry I couldn't more clearly reveal my point.