Why surrender a single day to the secular culture. Take it captive and glorify Christ with it! For example, tear down Hindu temples and build churches on top of the land. It's about spiritual warfare and conquest... not puritanical ascetism, which you're advocating.
\That is what the catholics did, send in a priest, adapt the local stuff into the catholic religion to keep the natives happy, build a church on the old temple site and you gots religion.
So why do we want to "take back" something we neither want nor need? It isn't about puritanical ascetism, it is about not worhipping at the altar of idols nor feasting at the table of demons.
As for the scriptures regarding Holy days, the churches of Acts were much different than those today... they were comprised of both Jewish and Gentile believers, a mix that often came into cultural clash. The "Holy Days" Paul was refereing to were the Jewish feasts and calendar days... Not the local pagan day set aside for Mithras, Minerva or whoever.
He was instructing the gentiles to let the Jews regard the feast of tabernacles or whatever if they want, and the Jews to not expect the gentiles to observe them if they didn't want. And if a gentile convert wanted to celebrate passover.. fien. let him.
And the gentiles not to judge the Jews for regarding it if they disiered, and the Jews not to allow anyone to judge them over it.
Nothing to do with "taking back" or "Christianizing" times and seasons that honor false gods.
I think a proper understanding of the history of Christmas will leave one with mixed emotions. Judaic Christians chose December 25th as a time to celebrate Christ's birth based on an ancient belief called "integral age". The celebration of Christ's birth became so prevalent that the Aurilean chose to revive ancient pagan practices to over shadow the celebration. Slowly the pagan ways prevailed and Christmas was a dark holiday of rioting and debauchery. It was a time of dread throughout Europe. Christians continued to try to "redeem" the season for Jesus Christ but pagan ways abounded. Eventually Christmas became marketable and with the opportunity to make money people began to turn the season into a time of festivity and giving. Slowly both Christianity and the free market gave us the delightful holiday we know today.
Paul wrote,
2 Corinthians 10:5 (Amplified Bible)
5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),
There are two types of Christians in this world. Those who flee from pagan ways and those who take every thought and purpose captive into obedience to Christ. Christians took the Christmas season and redeemed it, bringing it into obedience to Christ.
And thank God for that!
Aquila, I know you're going to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, and that what I'm saying is absolutely impossible. I said it all too when I was cautioned.
But, I know well the path I walked to where I ended up. More and more, your posts concern me. You're playing with a fire you don't understand. Please be cautious. The line gets very blurry the closer you get to it and you may not realize you're over it until you no longer care.
Do you have accountability with someone who will tell you like it is? Don't discount what they have to say if you do. And if you don't, please consider finding someone you can trust to bounce your ideas off of.
And you're wrong. There are at least three types of Christians. I definitely flee from pagan ways and I also take every thought and purpose captive into obedience to Christ. This shouldn't be an either/or.
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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
I think a proper understanding of the history of Christmas will leave one with mixed emotions. Judaic Christians chose December 25th as a time to celebrate Christ's birth based on an ancient belief called "integral age". The celebration of Christ's birth became so prevalent that the Aurilean chose to revive ancient pagan practices to over shadow the celebration. Slowly the pagan ways prevailed and Christmas was a dark holiday of rioting and debauchery. It was a time of dread throughout Europe. Christians continued to try to "redeem" the season for Jesus Christ but pagan ways abounded. Eventually Christmas became marketable and with the opportunity to make money people began to turn the season into a time of festivity and giving. Slowly both Christianity and the free market gave us the delightful holiday we know today.
Paul wrote,
2 Corinthians 10:5 (Amplified Bible)
5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),
There are two types of Christians in this world. Those who flee from pagan ways and those who take every thought and purpose captive into obedience to Christ. Christians took the Christmas season and redeemed it, bringing it into obedience to Christ.
And thank God for that!
I just can't wait til we redeem the madi gras!
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Last edited by Truthseeker; 12-03-2009 at 08:35 AM.
I'd also like to note that I think this "anti-Christmas" stuff is an effort to rob us of our European customs and heritage. If a Mexican, Indian, or African integrated cultural observances with their Christianity we find it indearing and support their keeping both their cultural identity and Christian faith. If Europeans keep their cultural customs and integrate them into Christianity the anti-European crowd seeks to make a stink. My heritage is primarily Dutch, Irish, English, and German. I'm proud of my cultural European heritage.
Don't get me started on Ephraim and Manasseh.
Pagan is pagan whether mexican pagan or indian pagan.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Here's the bottom line. Do you really think that, regardless of origin, God will frown on someone using December 25 as a day to sincerely celebrate his birth and share gifts with family and friends? If you do, you're overthinking it. Are there reasons that the modern version of Christmas has been perverted into something materialistic and commercialized. Sure. Is that a reason not to observe it? Maybe so. I understand that position. But it can be celebrated in a spirit that is pleasing to God. I assure you.
__________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. — André Gide
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds... - Ralph Waldo Emerson
I think a proper understanding of the history of Christmas will leave one with mixed emotions. Judaic Christians chose December 25th as a time to celebrate Christ's birth based on an ancient belief called "integral age". The celebration of Christ's birth became so prevalent that the Aurilean chose to revive ancient pagan practices to over shadow the celebration. Slowly the pagan ways prevailed and Christmas was a dark holiday of rioting and debauchery. It was a time of dread throughout Europe. Christians continued to try to "redeem" the season for Jesus Christ but pagan ways abounded. Eventually Christmas became marketable and with the opportunity to make money people began to turn the season into a time of festivity and giving. Slowly both Christianity and the free market gave us the delightful holiday we know today.
Paul wrote,
2 Corinthians 10:5 (Amplified Bible)
5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),
There are two types of Christians in this world. Those who flee from pagan ways and those who take every thought and purpose captive into obedience to Christ. Christians took the Christmas season and redeemed it, bringing it into obedience to Christ.
And thank God for that!
By your logic then I can and should go out and buy a statue of buddha and stick a label that says "Jesus" on it and set it on my mantle with a candle burning beside it and by so doing I am honoring God by taking back an idol and changing it's name.
because we bring a dead tree into the house and sit around it and look at it while we eat candy from our socks
__________________
Rom.8:38,39-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Here's the bottom line. Do you really think that, regardless of origin, God will frown on someone using December 25 as a day to sincerely celebrate his birth and share gifts with family and friends?
No
Quote:
If you do, you're overthinking it. Are there reasons that the modern version of Christmas has been perverted into something materialistic and commercialized. Sure. Is that a reason not to observe it? Maybe so. I understand that position.
Mostly mine, I am not for or against it. I am against the over emphasis placed on it, and the hypocrisy associated with it when people act like they love you Dec 25 and stab you in the back on the 26th.
And of course the hype and commercialization of it that causes families to hurt themselves financially because they feel obligated to buy the latest and greatest when they could make or do something for someone that would illustrate a spirit of love even more.... and the mindset on the part of the reciever that is disapointed if they get a can of homeamade cookies instead of a 50 dollar itunes card.
Quote:
But it can be celebrated in a spirit that is pleasing to God. I assure you.
I think so, just not as a "Christian" "Holy" day.
But like July 4th, only around a fireplace instead of a grill.
__________________
Last edited by John Atkinson; 12-03-2009 at 08:46 AM.
That wasn't our December 25th though... But I am sure you understand that.
Oh, I know. I don't know how far off the actual date it actually was. Perhaps that day actually fell on the Winter Solstice or another pagan holiday, or maybe it was after some heathen celebration of another sort... any of which would of course make it 100 times worse.
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