Read Segraves on "letting down hair"

[DAII]

Do you know why she got a hold of that and he didn't? Because ladies, among us, who do not cut their hair are entangled with angels and the wisdom and power of angels that men are not connected to and they cannot be connected to it.

Sickening ... this emasculates men and feminizes the Church ... this may be the ulterior motive.

BD ... you choose to be a eunuch ... godspeed.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DAII

We have a portion of this on the site as well ...

Again BD has little working knowledge of the histrionics of this ...

It's like speaking about the Cold War with my middle school students.

BD?

I forgot I saved this quote by RR:

RR:
Speaking on the Ten Commandments.

"And the last six deal with our love for one another. Honoring our parents, killing, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness and covet."

"Now, you're gonna probably laugh at me, but I can even find HOLINESS in the Ten Commandments."

"It says thou shalt not commit adultery. Well, ladies if I wear a dress that makes a man commit adultery in his heart when he looks at me then I've just committed adultery."

"It says, thou shalt not bear false witness. Well, if I smear something all over my face that is supposed to make me look like something I'm really not, then I have just born false witness."

"I mean, it's called "make-up" which means to lie, right?, so you see you can find Holiness in the Ten Commandments."

Now that is a trip!

[Pressing-On]

Saved this as well.

Originally Posted by Sabellius
Oh yes I do! Also the citation does not say that it doesn't mean "uncut" in the Greek. It should be received by the simple command to "let the hair grow long"; however, as the lexicographer states it is necessary in "a number of languages" to spell out the implication. Commentators realize this but excuse this away by making the argument entirely cultural. Here is the def:

"To wear long hair as part of one's attire - 'to have long hair, to appear with long hair, to wear long hair.' gunh\ de\ e)a\n koma=| do/ca au)th=| e)stin 'if a women wears long hair, it is a pride for her' 1 Co 11:15. In a number of languages it may be necessary to translate koma/w as 'to let one's hair grow long' or 'not to cut one's hair.'" (from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright (c) 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

I am not sure about the Ark and the "covering" thingy. Maybe you can spread the light on that later.

[Pressing-On]

And this:

Originally posted by Newman
The continual message running through 1 Corinthians was about being careful how one's actions were perceived by another that the Gospel could go forward and people would be saved. And when we press upon women a requirement God never intended; we have taken this passage and turned it completely upside down from what all of 1 Corinthians stood for.

So, are these scriptures dealing with settling issues with the NT church as to cultural changes for the New Covenant? Or can we use them to establish a church doctrine, such as, uncut hair.

Remember the real issue on this thread is culture and establishment of the church and not necessarily whether we should or should not cut our hair.

[Pressing-On]

I might as well dump this here too!

http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/uncuthair.htm

Perhaps more than anything else, the history and culture that surrounded the Corinthian church of the first century can illuminate Paul's subject and intention when writing eleventh chapter of First Corinthians. Corinth was not only under the political control of the Roman Empire at the time the epistle was written but was also greatly influenced by the culture and religions of the Roman Empire, much of which was borrowed from the Greeks.

The predominant religious practice of that day was the cult worship of the Greco-Roman gods. One of the most prominent gods was Dionysus, the god of wine, which was especially popular among women. It was believed by his followers that Dionysus was a homosexual, she-male sort of character that had been raised as a female though born a male. As part of their worship, his followers would kill live animals by ripping them limb from limb and then drink the animal’s blood while eating the raw meat (cf. Acts 15:28,29).

Worshipping the god of wine, they would also drink wine to the point of incoherence and engage in lewd homosexual acts with one another. It is the way these pagan worshippers dressed, however, that offers the most valuable insights into Paul's teachings in Corinthians 11.

According to researchers, the female worshippers of Dionysus would frequently dress like men. They would remove their veils and either cut their hair very short or completely shave their heads. The men, attempting to imitate women, would grow their hair long and don veils during the worship ceremonies.

In an article published in the “Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society,” Catherine Clark writes that when women worshipped the god Dionysus, that the
“...uncovered head and bound hair was to signify both commitment to the strange god of wine and at the same time repudiation of male injustice.”

In describing the practices of similar cults, Clark further states that,

“A relief from Rome shows a high priest of Cybele. The castrated priest wears veil, necklaces, earrings and feminine dress.”8
A telling artifact that was discovered is a vase painting from Corinth that depicts a woman dancing before Dionysus with a shaved head. 9


Jimmilea Berryhill, M.A., adds additional insight:
“In the Dionysiac cult, as well as other Greco-roman mystery rites, transvestitism was a specific distinction and by the second century A.D. was considered to be indispensable. Veils and long hair were worn by men as sign of dedication to their god while the women used unveiling and shorn hair. Men masqueraded as women and women as men.”10

It seems apparent, then, that the focus of Paul’s writings was to admonish the Corinthians to avoid paganistic and counter-culture practices. Essentially, the veiling of women was the cultural norm in Corinth and pagan worshippers rejected this practice out of rebellion against “the establishment.” Paul was merely instructing the women of Corinth not to remove their veils during worship either because they too were rebelling or because they would be inappropriately identified with pagan practices, or both. By admonishing the women to wear veils and the men not to wear veils during worship, he was instructing the church to not engage in or be identified with the rebellious cross-dressing practices of the pagans that included female unveiling and male veiling. Furthermore, Paul's reference to shorn and shaven heads as being shameful in 1 Cor 11:6 also seems to be directly related to the practices of the pagan women in and around Corinth.

[Praxeas]

From the Theological Dictionary of the NT by Kittel, published by Eerdmans, in Biblical times, when you entered Corinth, at the top of the hill was the Temple of Diana. The first sailor, from the sea to the top of the hill, was given free access to the whole of the harlot harems of Diana. The prostitutes, in the Temple, all had short hair. It had been given as a sacrifice to the Goddess Diana.

I can't find this in the TDNT

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RR

Speaking on the Ten Commandments.

"And the last six deal with our love for one another. Honoring our parents, killing, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness and covet."

"Now, you're gonna probably laugh at me, but I can even find HOLINESS in the Ten Commandments."

"It says thou shalt not commit adultery. Well, ladies if I wear a dress that makes a man commit adultery in his heart when he looks at me then I've just committed adultery."

"It says, thou shalt not bear false witness. Well, if I smear something all over my face that is supposed to make me look like something I'm really not, then I have just born false witness."

"I mean, it's called "make-up" which means to lie, right?, so you see you can find Holiness in the Ten Commandments."

Wow.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So guys are up the creek without a paddle. Men have no angelic covering, churches with prayed up Holy Ghost filled men have no bearing on the angelic presence? That is what LS is saying.

You guys are totally missing the big picture... the head of man in CHRIST!!!! lol.... Suggesting a woman has authority in the spirit realm that a man doesn't have is a far stretch, I agree with that. That language needs to be calibrated as well... but to say that a woman who is obedient and submissive has authority in the spirit realm that men or women who are not obedient and submissive do not have, is absolutely true.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

You guys are totally missing the big picture... the head of man in CHRIST!!!! lol.... Suggesting a woman has authority in the spirit realm that a man doesn't have is a far stretch, I agree with that. That language needs to be calibrated as well... but to say that a woman who is obedient and submissive has authority in the spirit realm that men or women who are not obedient and submissive do not have, is absolutely true.

Why the obsessive focus on women only? Don't you think it's probably more of a blatant attempt to give women a deeper reason for uncut hair than anything else? Tell a woman scripture says something that isn't crystal clear but is POSSIBLE is one thing--she may or may not go with the safest bet. However, if you appeal to her desire to please God and protect those she loves? She's not going to even question it, because you've not only given her a purpose, but you've instilled fear.

It's manipulation, PURE AND SIMPLE. If it weren't, we would hear just as many sermons about men and their short hair.

And don't tell me that LS thinks men have the same power; he said in one of his sermons that he has been talking to pastors about a problem in the church, a problem that apparently the godly pastor couldn't solve. In would walk his wife with her uncut hair and offer the necessary wisdom, where her husband's failed.

Two things:

1. Men don't have the same power in their short hair as women do in their long hair--THAT message is clearly relayed.

2. Men are made out to be insignificant and inferior in regard to spiritual matters.

The LANGUAGE? The language is clearly representing what LS (and others) believe. Unfortunately for their defenders. LOL!!!! It isn't the LANGUAGE that needs to change; it's the belief system.

[DAII]

As stated by LS this an authority and power entangled with angels that allows for covering that a man cannot provide without her compliance with tales of angelic interventions to prove it. Nothing to calibrate BD. This the message of LS you are in alignment with!

Originally Posted by BobDylan

You guys are totally missing the big picture... the head of man in CHRIST!!!! lol.... Suggesting a woman has authority in the spirit realm that a man doesn't have is a far stretch, I agree with that. That language needs to be calibrated as well... but to say that a woman who is obedient and submissive has authority in the spirit realm that men or women who are not obedient and submissive do not have, is absolutely true.