Timmy's Religion

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by CC1

I had forgotten all about you being agnostic until I clicked on your news conference link here then remembered that some pastor poster obviously descended from Albert Einstein started a thread not too long ago asking what we all thought about him saying he would put you on his church board then when we told him what we thought about that he got all hurt and offended and left! LOL!!!

My philosophy is "don't ask if you don't want people to tell you!!!"

I didn't leave. I'm right here. I sent you three PM's that you never answered. I also spoke about it to another Admin, to which I never received an answer. Your statement above is very misrepresentative of the truth. I didn't leave and you know it.

I wasn't hurt, nor offended about your opinions concerning the board. I was hurt concerning your idiotic claims that I don't prepare for sermons and you took a cheap shot at me that I didn't deserve. You're able to call me "bizarre" (although you misspelled it) and "strange" and here in this post, "Einstein", and tell a complete untruth about me. Wonder if I could get away with that?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I didn't leave. I'm right here. I sent you three PM's that you never answered. I also spoke about it to another Admin, to which I never received an answer. Your statement above is very misrepresentative of the truth. I didn't leave and you know it.

I wasn't hurt, nor offended about your opinions concerning the board. I was hurt concerning your idiotic claims that I don't prepare for sermons and you took a cheap shot at me that I didn't deserve. You're able to call me "bizarre" (although you misspelled it) and "strange" and here in this post, "Einstein", and tell a complete untruth about me. Wonder if I could get away with that?

I don't know how you are sending messages but I have never recieved a PM from you that I recall and I just checked to make sure I had not missed them and I don't see them. Of course I could just be brain dead tonight and have forgotten. What makes me think I never got them though is that I definitely would have responded. Always have except to a few sent by folks to all the Admins on an official matter and some other admin responded first.

Sorry I forgot it was you and indeed you are still around! I am glad you are. My thoughts about your sermon prep were entirely based on your own posts and you know it. You are correct I am a terrible speller.

I did find it strange that you asked peoples opinion on that thread were you put forth the idea of agnostic Timmy serving on your church board then didn't seem to like it when most of us thought you had lost your mind. (most were too polite to put it that bluntly).

You are probably the nicest guy in the world and sincere as all get out. I would probably enjoy meeting you in person and talking with you BUT yes I find some of the things you post both bizarre and strange, even if they are misspelled!

I am glad you are here and it is the diversity of posters that makes a forum interesting. I apologize for saying you had left. I had honestly forgotten it was your screen name that would like an agnostic on their church board and no longer spends hours during the week preparing for sermons but rather spends that time with people then prepares Sunday morning.

[KWSS1976]

I see I made the mix..lol I look at it like this I pay real close attention when I go to church and see if whats going on around me lines up with the bible....most of the time it does not...tongues,baptism,healings...etc,etc,etc...I mean come on I can understand having faith and all...But don't come to church and say I got my healing of cancer...then 6 months down the line the cancer comes back and you die from it...I think sometimes we have alittle to much faith and it comes around to bite us....I don't think the world was created with a bigbang.....I just think people have to much faith sometimes and it fails them....I am not saying there is not a God or Jesus his son. I mean we have proof of cities that exsisted in the bible days and these cities are in the bible...I am just of the opinion that God is not messing around with us anymore..I mean think about it...why would someone have so much faith that they state God healed them when he really did not...And we can go to the Pentecostal Experience thing that happened on that day...but then again thats one of those things that is happening in the church unlike it did in the bible..Come on think about it we have the bible to learn from right...Why fabricate new ways to "Get God to move" so to speak...Alot of times in the book things were done not for us to copy..It had it's reasons for happening right then and there and was not intened for repeating.....

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

I see I made the mix..lol I look at it like this I pay real close attention when I go to church and see if whats going on around me lines up with the bible....most of the time it does not...tongues,baptism,healings...etc,etc,etc...I mean come on I can understand having faith and all...But don't come to church and say I got my healing of cancer...then 6 months down the line the cancer comes back and you die from it...I think sometimes we have alittle to much faith and it comes around to bite us....I don't think the world was created with a bigbang.....I just think people have to much faith sometimes and it fails them....I am not saying there is not a God or Jesus his son. I mean we have proof of cities that exsisted in the bible days and these cities are in the bible...I am just of the opinion that God is not messing around with us anymore..I mean think about it...why would someone have so much faith that they state God healed them when he really did not...And we can go to the Pentecostal Experience thing that happened on that day...but then again thats one of those things that is happening in the church unlike it did in the bible..Come on think about it we have the bible to learn from right...Why fabricate new ways to "Get God to move" so to speak...Alot of times in the book things were done not for us to copy..It had it's reasons for happening right then and there and was not intened for repeating.....

No disrespect towards you intended, but I have seen genuine miracles, and any time I saw them were instances after which I had to get as far away from this reasoning you portray as I can.

A lady in our church was requiring kidney surgery, and she was healed. She went to the doctor and was told her kidney is spontaneously regenerating itself, and kidneys do not HEAL. He could not explain it and she told him it was God. The doctor gave her a high-five.

We prayed for another sister in front of the congregation who had a large lump on her side that the physicians said they could not remove by operation. As we prayed it instantly disappeared.

We're seeing more and more this.

And again, I have to be as far away from your reasoning as I can get in order to see these things. There will always be forgeries and counterfeits of the true, but they do not mean real miracles are not occurring.

My thoughts, anyway.

[KWSS1976]

See MF as your Kidney description goes a kidney can heal itself depends on the severity and other peoples kidneys have so not taking nothing away from God but..it is possible for the kidney to heal..And as far as the lump on the side goes...again not taking anything away from God but I really thing it was operable I mean come on they do brain surgery so why would a lump on someones side not be able to be removed...And if it just disappearded that great..again it has alot ot do with what kind of lump it was..or even what it was...and was it on the side of a leg or upper body...then again not taking anything away from God but you cannot rule out other possibilities...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

See MF as your Kidney description goes a kidney can heal itself depends on the severity and other peoples kidneys have so not taking nothing away from God but..it is possible for the kidney to heal..

Bro., these are words from the doctor. Her doctor was dealing with her about the surgery and arranged the surgery for her. After her healing he told her that the way they were healing is not possible. I am telling you the truth, bro! GOD IS REAL and so are miracles.

You will never see any if you maintain your sort of reasoning. The bible teaches we must not doubt when believing God for things like this.

It's like the woman who prayed the mountain be removed from alongside her home. She got up the next day and said, "I did not think it would be gone." lol Jesus said you can remove mountains so long as you pray, "doubting nothing." Believe the things we pray for shall come to pass. The bible is replete with this directive. And if you refuse to heed that directive, and do not see miracles, what can anyone say?

And as far as the lump on the side goes...again not taking anything away from God but I really thing it was operable I mean come on they do brain surgery so why would a lump on someones side not be able to be removed...

She was on blood thinners for her health condition, and they refused to do surgery.

And if it just disappearded that great..again it has alot ot do with what kind of lump it was..or even what it was...and was it on the side of a leg or upper body...

No, the doctor confirmed the situation. She was examined beforehand and told details about it.

then again not taking anything away from God but you cannot rule out other possibilities...

See? it's just this sort of reasoning that causes people to never see real miracles.

[mfblume]

I distinctly noted these two miracles since the situations were were confirmed by doctors and had previous explanations as to the state of the infirmity before the miracles occurred.

Another occasion had a call come to me from Newfoundland from a fellow minister while I was living in Dartmouth, NS, CANADA ministering. A man there said he had a call that folks that attended his church who were then in Antigonish, NS, needed a miracle. A sister lost a baby while giving birth and suffered severe toxemia and was being flown by helicopter to Halifax hospital as she was dying. He asked me to rush over and pray for her.

I arrived and the woman was hooked up to more medical gadgetry than I ever saw before. I arrived before the family did who were still on the road travelling up by car. The nurses told me her organs were shutting down and they had no neurological responses. Nothing was helping her. We prayed. The family arrived, and they were praying in tongues with doctors and nurses all around us. I laid hands on the woman and commanded the organs to resurrect and for her brain to function properly again. A nurse suddenly said her hand moved, and she rushed over to the woman and spoke in her ear telling her to move her hand again if she could hear her. She moved her hand again!

WOW!

I was amazed at how slim the woman actually was afterwards because while we prayed she was quite large. I was informed that it was due to all the fluid building up due to her Toxemia.

We were called in again the next day since she took a relapse and lost her sight. We commanded her vision to return in the name of the Lord. As we sat in the office next door, the doctor came in and reported that she has regained her vision.

I choose to give God glory for it all!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by CC1

I don't know how you are sending messages but I have never recieved a PM from you that I recall and I just checked to make sure I had not missed them and I don't see them. Of course I could just be brain dead tonight and have forgotten. What makes me think I never got them though is that I definitely would have responded. Always have except to a few sent by folks to all the Admins on an official matter and some other admin responded first.

••The first PM was sent AND read by you on March 23 and it was titled "Disappointed." The others, I didn't save.

Sorry I forgot it was you and indeed you are still around! I am glad you are. My thoughts about your sermon prep were entirely based on your own posts and you know it. You are correct I am a terrible speller.

••I made it clear that I don't spend my Saturday assembling a sermon. I said it for the context of the typo I'd made that was funny. Just because I don't spend my Saturday's assembling as sermon does not disqualify me from taking my speaking seriously. You're welcome to look up my website, call our office, get some random phone numbers of our attenders, and get their opinion on how I do.

I did find it strange that you asked peoples opinion on that thread were you put forth the idea of agnostic Timmy serving on your church board then didn't seem to like it when most of us thought you had lost your mind. (most were too polite to put it that bluntly).

••But when you commented on page 16 or so of the thread, you admitted that you hadn't read the thread and I doubt you still have. If you HAD read the thread, you'd know that it was not a finality of a decision but "based on what you know" and also an advisory position concerning compliance with IRS codes, state non-profit guidelines, and maintaining integrity and accountability in the financial structure of the church. Based on what I know, Timmy is gifted in those areas. He's an honest, forthright, compassionate person who cares deeply about others. I said in that thread that he displays more of the "Fruit of the Spirit" than many people I've worked with on boards. I also said in the thread that using him on a board of that design would be similar to using an "agnostic lawyer". But you didn't read that. You just jumped in and called me crazy. I wanted to demonstrate the "Us vs. Them" mentality that exists in the culture of Christianity.

You are probably the nicest guy in the world and sincere as all get out. I would probably enjoy meeting you in person and talking with you BUT yes I find some of the things you post both bizarre and strange, even if they are misspelled!

••They're bizarre and strange because you're not hearing the entire context. I will admit, however, that there are those who know me very well that think I'm "bizarre" and "strange". So maybe if you DID know, you'd still maintain that. I spend my entire life getting close to those who "aren't like me", I love broken people, and I'd MUCH rather have lunch with a homeless man standing on the street corner than I would want to sit at Denny's at 11pm stuffing down food with Christians after a conference service.

I am glad you are here and it is the diversity of posters that makes a forum interesting. I apologize for saying you had left. I had honestly forgotten it was your screen name that would like an agnostic on their church board and no longer spends hours during the week preparing for sermons but rather spends that time with people then prepares Sunday morning.

••But again, remember, that I told you that I spend my time EVERY DAY consuming the bible and through the process of life AND my everyday reading, I then assemble my notes at 5am Sunday. I used to read the bible looking for a sermon. I'll never do that again. I NEVER go looking for a sermon. Ever. I let God speak to me and sometimes that's when I'm driving, playing golf (I've spent entire rounds writing notes on a scorecard), or jumping out of bed at 3am to write.

If you think that's not taking it seriously, then you're welcome to your opinion.

[Michlow]

I wasn't included in this, but I am usually lumped together with Timmy, so I thought I would chime in. Even though I claim to have settled into agnosticism since my apostolic exodus, though a true agnostic would probably take offense!

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Timmy has such a big influence on this forum, I was curious to know what Timmy actually believes.

Do you believe in God? Yes, but his character, motivations, intentions, etc...are pretty much a mystery, and I don't know if I believe they CAN be known...hence the agnostic term.

Do you believe the bible is the inspired, infallible word of God? No.

Do you believe in the oneness of God? Yes and no. I don't claim to know. But when I think of God / Divinity, I think of Jesus. If I try to assign motivations or characteristics to God, I think of Jesus.

Do you believe acts 2:38 is the plan of salvation? not so much

Do you believe in speaking in tongues? yes and no. I cannot deny that it happens, and I guess I don't believe that in all cases it's some sort of fleshly mass hypnosis. In this area I can only speak of my own experience. I believe that something happened to me. That it was real, and that I was changed because of it. I didn't speak in tongues when that happened, but I did later, and still do at times, much to my own personal astonishment, LOL

Are you a one stepper or three stepper? none of the above. At most, I could be considered a half-stepper.



I would like to ask these questions of KWS and not of works also.

Failure to respond to these questions means revoking my vote for Timmy as GS.

I guess I can't truly be called agnostic, because of the whole Jesus thing.

[notofworks]

Well, since you asked me to answer as well,....I'll answer in red with two ••'s.

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Timmy has such a big influence on this forum, I was curious to know what Timmy actually believes.

Do you believe in God?
••Absolutely. I've struggled with it, and I investigated. I'm glad I doubted because it ended up greatly increasing my faith. I, like "Oneeyedfatman" greatly struggled with the God that pentecostalism presented me. The "charismatic" God was even worse. But the journey led me to a greatly-desired encounter with God and I've never been the same.

Do you believe the bible is the inspired, infallible word of God?
••I couldn't say, "No", but I struggle with major parts of the bible...the killing, the logic of things like the Ark etc., the Levitical law....The Old Testament can be rough. But I love the New Testament. I leave open the possibility that NT writers may have said uninspired things. There is also a large discussion concerning scribal additions and changes and I leave open the possibility that we don't have the pure form of the bible in it's entirety. That being said, I follow and teach the concepts of the New Testament in their entirety. One of the great attractions of this forum are the thoughts that people like Pelathias and NotForSale offer in these areas.

Do you believe in the oneness of God?
••Oh, of course. There is one God, eternally existing in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each possessing all the attributes of Deity. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, and these three are one! So of course I believe in the oneness of God! (I said that mostly to tweak you oneness gurus. I really see zero difference between "persons" and "manifestations." Be a "Oneness-arian" or a "Triniatrian"...I really don't care.

Do you believe acts 2:38 is the plan of salvation?
••If anything in or surrounding Acts 2:38 claimed that it was the plan of salvation, I'd be happy to believe it. Instead, I rely on places in the bible that DO claim to be the plan of salvation, and the list is too long, but I'll start with Romans 10, Ephesians 2, Acts 16.......and many, many others.

Do you believe in speaking in tongues?
••As we know it? As being an unintelligible utterance that is mostly memorized repetitions? Probably not. Do I believe things could be said in one language that people could understand that didn't speak that language? Yes. I'm aware of instances like that. Do I believe in a "prayer language" or an "Utterance of exuberant worship"? I'm honestly not sure. Well, I'm sure it's not for me, but for others? I don't know. I lean toward, "No" because I don't see the benefit nor the productivity but I'm greatly aware of how much damage it can do. In our church, it's up to the individual, but it's not something that's practiced openly in our services. We have many every week that are "Unbelievers and/or uninformed" so to do so in their presence would be a violation of scripture.

Are you a one stepper or three stepper?
••I'm a zero-stepper. Jesus took all the steps. I accepted His steps and have been ravaged by His grace, and my only real desire in this life is to see the easy yoke and the light burden of Christ rest upon every single person I ever come in contact with, whether it be my neighbors, on the golf course, at a restaurant, on vacation, on a cruise (I spent a recent cruise talking about the grace of God every night at the dinner table...they asked me), in the mall, at the drive-thru.....outside of my family, it's the only thing in this world that matters to me.

••DedicatedMind, before you want to throw me off the forum, just remember that every time one of the right-wingers on the forum starts the Obama and Pelosi bashing, I'm the first one to come to their defense! You gotta like me for that!!