UPCI Changes

[Sister Alvear]

I WANT my people to ask questions...I want them to know how I feel....

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Justin

At the Mich mens conf. J. H. Osborn pleaded to the next generation of men: "You did not write this doctrine, do not change it, do not analyze it, just preach it!"

This really does illustrate the failings of the "con" movement within the UPC and, in as much as the "cons" have taken control of the org, the failure of the UPC as a whole.

The constant refrain is, "Just drink the kool aide!" People are looking for better answers than that. These goofs can't even substantiate their core beliefs.

What makes them think sincere, believing Christians and honest converts to the Christian faith want to chuck their brains and their Bibles just to conform with a 50 year old dress code?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

Chilling.

Just check your mind at the door and follow tradition blindly.

Ironically, this is the identical behavior apostolics castigate in others when "denominal" Christians refuse to abandon their own traditional positions, often centuries old, to embrace ours.

We are to have the mind of Christ, not to abandon the mind entirely. We have a sacred and scriptural obligation to study and examine the scriptures to be sure that we are truly delivering the gospel that was ONCE delivered unto the saints.

It raises my hackles when ministers are told to sit down and shut up regardless of their honesty, sincerity, or walk with God.

Well said!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

...
It raises my hackles when ministers are told to sit down and shut up regardless of their honesty, sincerity, or walk with God.

common cultic control tactics

[allstate1]

And if we do ask questions we are demanded to go pray through until the demonic spirit of rebellion is gone!!

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by Justin

At the Mich mens conf. J. H. Osborn pleaded to the next generation of men: "You did not write this doctrine, do not change it, do not analyze it, just preach it!"

Originally Posted by Sam

common cultic control tactics

'Tis true.

I'm wondering if Rev. Osborn is referring to the once delivered doctrine or the 1945 interpretation? Curiously enough, if those men had heeded this advice, and declined to initiate a radical departure from long held traditional beliefs, there would be no UPCI, ALJC, or even an AofG. Thank God for men who are courageous enough to re-examine timeless biblical texts and apply them to our present generation.

[ManOfWord]

Even in Judaism, the tried and true way of leaning is through questioning, arguing, debating AND not being fearful of not having all figured out!

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Justin

Yes. I took that as "It's right no matter what, shut up and preach it without questioning it."

As a good friend said, "Sounds a lot like the preacher who writes in the margin of his sermon notes: "Get real loud here--the argument is weak!""

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Even in Judaism, the tried and true way of leaning is through questioning, arguing, debating AND not being fearful of not having all figured out!

Well said. Your words could almost be a paraphrase of Paul in Philippians 2:12, when he admonished us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

I will not leave something so important unexamined. That kind of cavalier treatment of "so great a salvation" should be left up to the agnostic and the apathetic.

[mrnbcox]

I think he meant, some things are not questionable or debatable.. they are set in stone. the Godhead & Salvation is only one way! There is no debate.

Remember he is speaking to the church, not sinners. Of course sinners will and should ask questions! But if you have been in the church for years and your starting to question the new birth & oneness... you got problems