Stuff Apostolics Like: Holy Magic Hair (sort of)

[Jeffrey]

The prayer is said to be taken from Luke 1:

42In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished!"Mary's Song
46And Mary said:
"My soul glorifies the Lord
47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
51He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
52He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
53He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
54He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
55to Abraham and his descendants forever,
even as he said to our fathers."

Of course there must be a biblical reference, but where they went with it is at the least, ineffective, and at the most, idolatry.

[Sam]

This is an old poem/prayer from a child's standpoint.

Lovely Lady Dressed in Blue

Lovely Lady dressed in blue ----
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
Tell me what to say!

Did you lift Him up, sometimes,
Gently on your knee?
Did you sing to Him the way
Mother does to me?

Did you hold His hand at night?
Did you ever try
Telling stories of the world?
O! And did He cry?

Do you really think He cares
If I tell Him things-
Little things that happen? And
Do the Angels' wings

Make a noise? And can He hear
Me if I speak low?
Does He understand me now?
Tell me ---- for you know?

Lovely Lady dressed in blue ----
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
And you know the way.

[Jeffrey]

Reminds me of Jeremiah 44. How consumed Gods people got with worshipping other gods, pouring out libations in reverent acts of worship.

The RCC has deified Mary. They came up with a bogus doctrine called Immaculate Conception.

Pope Pius felt this was a salvific doctrine in fact:
Pope Pius IX, stated how serious an issue it is to reject this dogma. And I quote, “Hence, if anyone shall dare which God forbid to think otherwise than has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment, that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith, that he has separated from the unity of the Church and that furthermore by his own action he incurs the penalties established by Law if he should dare to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the error he thinks in his heart,” end quote.

Catholics even believe that Mary ascended into Heaven (like Jesus).

Just a little background. You can defend the prayer from your own perspective, but it's worthwhile to know the intent of those who created a liturgy from this prayer.

[Jeffrey]

Prayer is not just supernatural communication. It's worship directed toward a deity.

This sort of dead people intercession flirts close to their other pet doctrine called purgatory.

Jesus is our intercessor, the Spirit is our intercessor.... we don't need to worship and pray to mortals to make sure God hears us. What's the point?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Sam

There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus 1 Timothy 5

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no man comes to the Father but by Him John 14:6

This man (Jesus), because He continueth forever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore He is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:24-25

However, just as we might ask some one here on earth to pray for us or with us, some believe that we can also ask some one in heaven to pray for us or with us. They call this the intercession of the saints. Actually, they do not pray to a saint in heaven (although that is what some times actually happens) they ask the saint to pray for them or intercede for them.

Sam, is there scriptural support for praying to dead saints as intercessors? Searching... If Jesus is all we need, and the Spirit makes intercession on our behalf (Romans 8), I'm not sure what the point is.

[Jeffrey]

If we really want to know how to pray, Jesus gave us a pretty solid model. (It didn't include saints).

[Jeffrey]

The issue is Pentecosts' inability to emphasize the humanity of Jesus, and the RCC's insistence on over-playing these relationships to the point of forgetting his dual nature. Mary was a finite human used by God. Jesus was fully a human who nursed from her breasts. Jesus was also the Son of God, a relationship and reality completely independent of Mary.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Prayer is not just supernatural communication. It's worship directed toward a deity.

This sort of dead people intercession flirts close to their other pet doctrine called purgatory.

Jesus is our intercessor, the Spirit is our intercessor.... we don't need to worship and pray to mortals to make sure God hears us. What's the point?

Not always. In older forms of English the phrase, "I pray thee..." was directed at people who were standing right in front of the speaker. It was a means of petitioning and asking either a question or asking for aid.

Many cultures "pray to the dead" - not because the dead are "deified;" but because they are believed to be able to hear and to then pass along the communication to others including Deity.

This may or may not be a mistaken notion (see Psalm 115:17 and others); but it's not necessarily "worship."

[Sam]

Here is the Hail Mary and a comparison with some Scripture from Luke chapter 1. Some of it is a stretch.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

42 And she (Elizabeth) spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

48 (Mary said) For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Not always. In older forms of English the phrase, "I pray thee..." was directed at people who were standing right in front of the speaker. It was a means of petitioning and asking either a question or asking for aid.

Many cultures "pray to the dead" - not because the dead are "deified;" but because they are believed to be able to hear and to then pass along the communication to others including Deity.

This may or may not be a mistaken notion (see Psalm 115:17 and others); but it's not necessarily "worship."

Touche'.

The scripture you referenced speaks of those who go "down into silence." Not sure what that means.

Can you find an example of believers petitioning dead people to tap God on the shoulder on our behalf?