Holiness Is Still Important

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by proudfather

I'm not sure why we're suddenly confused about this subject. Men that preached this for years are now backing down from their previous stance. Television was preached against in the 60s. How much more so should we preach against it today? Every time this issue is brought up on this site, the same argument is presented; "What is the difference between Television and Internet?" I agree that anyone can use the Internet for evil if they want to. The same goes for the Bible. Let me explain. I can take the book of Song of Solomon and allow my imagination to run wild on certain verses. I can even take certain passages in the Gospel's and twist them to fit what I believe. If a person is determined to sin, then he will find a way. The Bible defines sin this way in James 4:17, "17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

So should we preach against all technology? Of course not! What we need to consider here, is are we allowing ourselves to be tempted beyond what we can bear? If a person has a problem with porn, they shouldn't use the internet without the proper filters. In fact, no one should use the internet without the proper filters. If you have a problem with lust, don't watch video's that will awaken those desires. Here's what I believe. Don't watch Hollywood...period. Whether it's on a Television screen, DVD player, the internet, exc. don’t watch it! Television however, cannot be controlled. I can hear your responses now. "I control mine." "I've never watched bad programs on my TV set." Let me ask you a question, and you'd better answer it honestly. Has your definition of "bad" changed at all since you purchased that TV?

I've never understood the argument that "tv can't be controlled". Why can't it?

My mother-in-law is not Pentecostal, and she's always had a tv. I've been in her home when the tv was on 24/7, and I was never once offended by what came across the screen. She *did* control what was on. If something inappropriate came on, she'd switch the channel. She's old-fashioned, and doesn't like garbage. She watches cooking shows, decorating shows, Andy Griffith, etc.

Why in the world can't tv be controlled??


Your very arguments here:

"What is the difference between Television and Internet?" I agree that anyone can use the Internet for evil if they want to. The same goes for the Bible. Let me explain. I can take the book of Song of Solomon and allow my imagination to run wild on certain verses. I can even take certain passages in the Gospel's and twist them to fit what I believe. If a person is determined to sin, then he will find a way.

What we need to consider here, is are we allowing ourselves to be tempted beyond what we can bear? If a person has a problem with porn, they shouldn't use the internet without the proper filters. In fact, no one should use the internet without the proper filters. If you have a problem with lust, don't watch video's that will awaken those desires.

..... show that we have to manage everything. Books, internet, dvd, music, etc. Why can we manage all of those things, but not tv?

I have several relatives who aren't even Christians, who own a tv, but rarely ever watch it. Some people really do have self-control.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

I would have to disagree. That is like or similar in part to the argument on baptism...


Baptism is not essential for salvation but all who are saved will be baptized

Holiness is not essential for salvation but all who are saved will be holy.

Then you have varying degrees on the above but I think you get the point.

I see this mentality on many boards.

Actually, I don't get the point. I'm not sure what you're saying.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by DAII

TV was never wrong .... content can be.

correct but the current content is about a polluted as the BP oil spill.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Actually, I don't get the point. I'm not sure what you're saying.

I apologize then for not being clear. My point goes to the base argument many have here on which stems from "what is faith". People argue Romans 4 and Ephesians 2:8-9. Thus they relegate holiness/obedience/works has no resulting consequence on salvation.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by proudfather

From what I've read on this website thus far, I cannot imagine that this will be a popular thread. Never the less, I will post it anyway, because I am concerned about the Apostolic movement.

This movement has let go of a lot of things that it used to stand for. While most preachers still believe Acts 2:38, the message of Holiness has become a touchy subject. I was surprised when ministers sat on Bro. Guy Godwin when he taught against ladies cutting their hair. I thought that was a given! After all, 1 Corinthians 11:14-16 is still in the Bible. I love the way the NLT translates this passage: "14 Isn’t it obvious that it’s disgraceful for a man to have long hair? 15 And isn’t long hair a woman’s pride and joy? For it has been given to her as a covering. 16 But if anyone wants to argue about this, I simply say that we have no other custom than this, and neither do God’s other churches."

I'm not sure why we're suddenly confused about this subject. Men that preached this for years are now backing down from their previous stance. Television was preached against in the 60s. How much more so should we preach against it today? Every time this issue is brought up on this site, the same argument is presented; "What is the difference between Television and Internet?" I agree that anyone can use the Internet for evil if they want to. The same goes for the Bible. Let me explain. I can take the book of Song of Solomon and allow my imagination to run wild on certain verses. I can even take certain passages in the Gospel's and twist them to fit what I believe. If a person is determined to sin, then he will find a way. The Bible defines sin this way in James 4:17, "17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

So should we preach against all technology? Of course not! What we need to consider here, is are we allowing ourselves to be tempted beyond what we can bear? If a person has a problem with porn, they shouldn't use the internet without the proper filters. In fact, no one should use the internet without the proper filters. If you have a problem with lust, don't watch video's that will awaken those desires. Here's what I believe. Don't watch Hollywood...period. Whether it's on a Television screen, DVD player, the internet, exc. don’t watch it! Television however, cannot be controlled. I can hear your responses now. "I control mine." "I've never watched bad programs on my TV set." Let me ask you a question, and you'd better answer it honestly. Has your definition of "bad" changed at all since you purchased that TV?

Me and my wife attended a church that let down the standard for a while. We went out and bought some movies during this ordeal, and we started out innocently enough by watching Disney movies, PG films, exc. However, we started watching Star Trek, Star Wars, Batman movies and other PG-13 films. Before we knew it, we were watching R rated films because they only contained one bad scene or just a few cuss words. The Holy Ghost convicted me in prayer and even though the church I was attending didn't preach against it, I got rid of every DVD that I owned.

Sound extreme? Let me tell you that Heaven is cheap at any price. I am willing to give up anything and everything if Christ convicts me to do so. Television may seem ok on the surface, but in reality, it is moving your boundaries. If it was wrong 30 years ago, it is still wrong today. Paul said, “For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor." I wouldn't want to stand in the shoes of a compromiser on the Day of Judgment. Scripture tells us that teachers/ministers are subject to a stricter judgment. I don't know about you, but I want to be saved.

Now, I will quote the words of Job: "Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on."

You're probably thinking that I am about 50 years old, ignorant, and countrified. Well, you're wrong on two accounts. I am in my 20's and I grew up in the city. I am ignorant, but God will use the unlearned to preach this Gospel. I am trying to learn more about him every day. I pray that I might know Him, in the power of the real Holy Ghost.

When I first came on AFF, I thought everyone was like you. Turns out, it's not true and you're right...this won't be a popular thread with most, although you'll be a hero to some. Others will believe you're an already-established poster just wanting to have some fun, which you may be.

Anyway, you're wrong about a few things here and the first I'll point out is this....yes, one certainly can control what comes on their TV. I can. Certain channels can be blocked out. I'll confess that I don't block out any channels, although I'm occasionally tempted to block TBN. But ultimately, I don't block out "bad" channels because I never watch them.

You see, the ultimate filter than any of us will ever have is the power of the Holy Spirit. That filter never fails! You say that if one has a problem with lust, one shouldn't be turning on any Hollywood productions. But, my friend, if I head to my local mall, I'm gonna see things just as "tempting" as anything I'll see on any Hollywood production, and it's live and in person...so what do I do then? I'm sorry, but if I've got a problem with lust, I can't walk out my front door without being tempted. And even then, if I lock down the doors to my house and become a recluse in order to defeat my problem with lust, there's still my mind!! I can still think about all the things I'm tempted with! What do I do then...have a lobotomy?

This is why I need God's power and His grace to cover me, when I'm on the internet, when I'm watching TV, when I'm at the mall and when I go to the grocery store. Heck, one can even be tempted by girls at church who are wearing "holiness" clothes! This is the serious problem with people that only see the Holy Spirit as something that happens in a church service when someone speaks in tongues...they miss the real power of the Holy Spirit that empowers us at all times!!!

Lastly...your most troubling statement..."Let me tell you that Heaven is cheap at any price. I am willing to give up anything and everything if Christ convicts me to do so."

You are very sincere, it seems, but this is the very reckless assumption that you and so many other pentecostals make. You cannot buy heaven!!! You cannot not give up enough to get there!! You cannot sacrifice enough, give up enough, do enough, pray enough, give enough...do anything enough!! You cannot earn your way to heaven and it is only by God's incredible grace that we make it there!

If you are, indeed, the "real deal", I'm glad you're here at AFF!

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by notofworks

When I first came on AFF, I thought everyone was like you. Turns out, it's not true and you're right...this won't be a popular thread with most, although you'll be a hero to some. Others will believe you're an already-established poster just wanting to have some fun, which you may be.

Anyway, you're wrong about a few things here and the first I'll point out is this....yes, one certainly can control what comes on their TV. I can. Certain channels can be blocked out. I'll confess that I don't block out any channels, although I'm occasionally tempted to block TBN. But ultimately, I don't block out "bad" channels because I never watch them.

You see, the ultimate filter than any of us will ever have is the power of the Holy Spirit. That filter never fails! You say that if one has a problem with lust, one shouldn't be turning on any Hollywood productions. But, my friend, if I head to my local mall, I'm gonna see things just as "tempting" as anything I'll see on any Hollywood production, and it's live and in person...so what do I do then? I'm sorry, but if I've got a problem with lust, I can't walk out my front door without being tempted. And even then, if I lock down the doors to my house and become a recluse in order to defeat my problem with lust, there's still my mind!! I can still think about all the things I'm tempted with! What do I do then...have a lobotomy?

This is why I need God's power and His grace to cover me, when I'm on the internet, when I'm watching TV, when I'm at the mall and when I go to the grocery store. Heck, one can even be tempted by girls at church who are wearing "holiness" clothes! This is the serious problem with people that only see the Holy Spirit as something that happens in a church service when someone speaks in tongues...they miss the real power of the Holy Spirit that empowers us at all times!!!

Lastly...your most troubling statement..."Let me tell you that Heaven is cheap at any price. I am willing to give up anything and everything if Christ convicts me to do so."

You are very sincere, it seems, but this is the very reckless assumption that you and so many other pentecostals make. You cannot buy heaven!!! You cannot not give up enough to get there!! You cannot sacrifice enough, give up enough, do enough, pray enough, give enough...do anything enough!! You cannot earn your way to heaven and it is only by God's incredible grace that we make it there!

If you are, indeed, the "real deal", I'm glad you're here at AFF!

Ignore him.... you do purchase the kingdom and Jesus said there is price to be paid to have eternal life. oh and he is glad you are here so he can change your mind. notofworks =

[TheLegalist]

see already started on it again AQuietPlace

[Sister Alvear]

If our heart is right then our eyes will be right...

Technology is ever changing however He who called us to walk in His holiness remains the same. So whatever I do or where ever I go I make sure Jesus would feel comfortable right by my side....

I am probably considered a UC by many however REAL holiness is a heart thing....Sleeves can cover up the body but they can never cover a sinful heart...White shirts may be the norm for some but many have war raging in their hearts and minds. It is sad to see how some people seem to get a kick out of destroying someone else.

I know some that preach hard against DVD's, television are wrong however in their homes they have large screens to watch Your Tube.... in fact one pastor could not even visit with us for watching Your Tube...

So when it all boils down to what is sin is will boil down to the integrity of the heart.

What you do and how you live when no one is standing over you with a little grade book...


and please do NOT read between the lines into what you THINK I am saying...just read what I said....

I know one preacher that boasted he took away a certain man's cell phone to help him live for God...lol...the preacher made a fool out of himself....

I am for standards so do not think I think anything goes because I DO NOT....HOWVEVER if respect for God and His holiness is not in our hearts then it is a lost cause....

Just like someone I know visited someone that had tried to destroy someone else...the person (lady) in long pants...quite a no no for UC's...told me, just wanted to show the person that I am a christian....

A Jehovah Witness lady once met a UC in our city not from our church but I happened to know both the JW and the UC so as the UC proceeded to tell the JW lady she was going to hell for cutting her hair the JW lady looked at her and told her that everyone on the block knew her tongue was as long as her hair....so sad....


Our spirits much match the message we preach if now we are a castaway....

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

I apologize then for not being clear. My point goes to the base argument many have here on which stems from "what is faith". People argue Romans 4 and Ephesians 2:8-9. Thus they relegate holiness/obedience/works has no resulting consequence on salvation.

Much clearer... thanks!

AQP's point is that all on this board believe in Holiness.

If you're saying it's a definition of terms that is at stake ("what is Holiness") then I guess you're right. If holiness is what Oneness Pentecostals have made it the last several decades, then you're especially on to something. Stripped aside, Holiness is a work of God, active in the life of the believer. It is imputed by God's grace, but also a continual working through sanctification. Walk in the Spirit, Be Holy, Blameless, etc... these are all expressions for the faith life.

It is not obeying rules. It is not uniformity. It is not a work that we do on our own.

[ManOfWord]

I am a holiness preacher. I firmly believe that "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord."

The problem has ALWAYS been, and ALWAYS will be, whose definition of holiness is THE standard?

Even I, as a pastor, do NOT think that my role is the "holiness police." Adults are smart. They really do, for the most part, know what is right and wrong. However, I don't have a problem labeling anything that is sin, that is spelled out in the bible. I firmly preach faithfulness to one's spouse; against drunkenness, pornography, lying, cheating etc. I have found that in over 25 yrs of being a Sr. Pastor, that I have NEVER been able to change anyone's life or conduct. If I can encourage someone to surrender their life to Jesus Christ, sincerely and completely, everything always turns out just fine. It is those who don't do that, we can give all our time to trying to change them......if we're foolish enough to take that "bait!"

My job is a servant. My prime weapon is a towel and not a sword. I take it very personal if someone tells me that I don't believe in or preach holiness. I most certainly DO! I just may not do it to the degree that others do and maybe more so than some as well.