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  #21  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:02 AM
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

I am a holiness preacher. I firmly believe that "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord."

The problem has ALWAYS been, and ALWAYS will be, whose definition of holiness is THE standard?

Even I, as a pastor, do NOT think that my role is the "holiness police." Adults are smart. They really do, for the most part, know what is right and wrong. However, I don't have a problem labeling anything that is sin, that is spelled out in the bible. I firmly preach faithfulness to one's spouse; against drunkenness, pornography, lying, cheating etc. I have found that in over 25 yrs of being a Sr. Pastor, that I have NEVER been able to change anyone's life or conduct. If I can encourage someone to surrender their life to Jesus Christ, sincerely and completely, everything always turns out just fine. It is those who don't do that, we can give all our time to trying to change them......if we're foolish enough to take that "bait!"

My job is a servant. My prime weapon is a towel and not a sword. I take it very personal if someone tells me that I don't believe in or preach holiness. I most certainly DO! I just may not do it to the degree that others do and maybe more so than some as well.
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  #22  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:03 AM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Much clearer... thanks!

AQP's point is that all on this board believe in Holiness.

If you're saying it's a definition of terms that is at stake ("what is Holiness") then I guess you're right. If holiness is what Oneness Pentecostals have made it the last several decades, then you're especially on to something. Stripped aside, Holiness is a work of God, active in the life of the believer. It is imputed by God's grace, but also a continual working through sanctification. Walk in the Spirit, Be Holy, Blameless, etc... these are all expressions for the faith life.

It is not obeying rules. It is not uniformity. It is not a work that we do on our own.
Holiness is a work of God just as ALL LAW/RIGHTEOUSNESS is a work of God. We have commandments to obey to abide in which HE declares us faithful.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:03 AM
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

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Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
correct but the current content is about a polluted as the BP oil spill.
There is definitely a lot of garbage on television. But there is also a lot that is not garbage. Especially with the advent of cable. I've found enough decent shows that I don't have time to watch them all. So it's very possible to watch tv in moderation and not once watch filth.

You can even get a TVGuardian if you want to, or a Clearplay machine. They'll filter out inappropriate content. Works as well as an internet filter.

Really, is the spirit of God inside of us completely overpowered by a television? I think the Holy Spirit is strong enough to speak to us even concerning television.
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:04 AM
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notofworks notofworks is offline
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

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Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
Ignore him.... you do purchase the kingdom and Jesus said there is price to be paid to have eternal life. oh and he is glad you are here so he can change your mind. notofworks =

Hmmm.....you do have a point, there!
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:04 AM
Pragmatist Pragmatist is offline
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

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Originally Posted by notofworks View Post
When I first came on AFF, I thought everyone was like you. Turns out, it's not true and you're right...this won't be a popular thread with most, although you'll be a hero to some. Others will believe you're an already-established poster just wanting to have some fun, which you may be.

Anyway, you're wrong about a few things here and the first I'll point out is this....yes, one certainly can control what comes on their TV. I can. Certain channels can be blocked out. I'll confess that I don't block out any channels, although I'm occasionally tempted to block TBN. But ultimately, I don't block out "bad" channels because I never watch them.

You see, the ultimate filter than any of us will ever have is the power of the Holy Spirit. That filter never fails! You say that if one has a problem with lust, one shouldn't be turning on any Hollywood productions. But, my friend, if I head to my local mall, I'm gonna see things just as "tempting" as anything I'll see on any Hollywood production, and it's live and in person...so what do I do then? I'm sorry, but if I've got a problem with lust, I can't walk out my front door without being tempted. And even then, if I lock down the doors to my house and become a recluse in order to defeat my problem with lust, there's still my mind!! I can still think about all the things I'm tempted with! What do I do then...have a lobotomy?

This is why I need God's power and His grace to cover me, when I'm on the internet, when I'm watching TV, when I'm at the mall and when I go to the grocery store. Heck, one can even be tempted by girls at church who are wearing "holiness" clothes! This is the serious problem with people that only see the Holy Spirit as something that happens in a church service when someone speaks in tongues...they miss the real power of the Holy Spirit that empowers us at all times!!!

Lastly...your most troubling statement..."Let me tell you that Heaven is cheap at any price. I am willing to give up anything and everything if Christ convicts me to do so."

You are very sincere, it seems, but this is the very reckless assumption that you and so many other pentecostals make. You cannot buy heaven!!! You cannot not give up enough to get there!! You cannot sacrifice enough, give up enough, do enough, pray enough, give enough...do anything enough!! You cannot earn your way to heaven and it is only by God's incredible grace that we make it there!

If you are, indeed, the "real deal", I'm glad you're here at AFF!
Excellent post.

And I always think it's funny when people go off on TV b/c it's dropping greatly in viewership. Young people today spend WAY more time on the internet (which of course, is okay).
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:05 AM
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

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Originally Posted by TheLegalist View Post
see already started on it again AQuietPlace
What - that holiness doesn't equal salvation?

Well, that's been discussed around here plenty, hasn't it?
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:07 AM
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
A Jehovah Witness lady once met a UC in our city not from our church but I happened to know both the JW and the UC so as the UC proceeded to tell the JW lady she was going to hell for cutting her hair the JW lady looked at her and told her that everyone on the block knew her tongue was as long as her hair....so sad....


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  #28  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:07 AM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

Quote:
notofworks;915697
Anyway, you're wrong about a few things here and the first I'll point out is this....yes, one certainly can control what comes on their TV. I can. Certain channels can be blocked out. I'll confess that I don't block out any channels, although I'm occasionally tempted to block TBN. But ultimately, I don't block out "bad" channels because I never watch them.
Certainly my brother's own right to practice his faith in this way.

Quote:
You see, the ultimate filter than any of us will ever have is the power of the Holy Spirit. That filter never fails! You say that if one has a problem with lust, one shouldn't be turning on any Hollywood productions. But, my friend, if I head to my local mall, I'm gonna see things just as "tempting" as anything I'll see on any Hollywood production, and it's live and in person...so what do I do then? I'm sorry, but if I've got a problem with lust, I can't walk out my front door without being tempted. And even then, if I lock down the doors to my house and become a recluse in order to defeat my problem with lust, there's still my mind!! I can still think about all the things I'm tempted with! What do I do then...have a lobotomy?
I think his point was feeding the beast of lust, until it overtakes you. Walking through a mall and incidentally seeing inappropriate dress is only one part of the problem. Choosing to watch late-night HBO "sexy" shows is much different than incidental "walking through life." Surely you see the difference.

If you have a problem with lust, I don't believe you'll ever be completely exempt from that struggle. Instead, you learn to make choices that keep Jesus as LORD and not the idol of lust. Since most men are visual, our visual entertainment should be considered, and what situations we bring into our home should be considered as well.

Quote:
This is why I need God's power and His grace to cover me, when I'm on the internet, when I'm watching TV, when I'm at the mall and when I go to the grocery store. Heck, one can even be tempted by girls at church who are wearing "holiness" clothes! This is the serious problem with people that only see the Holy Spirit as something that happens in a church service when someone speaks in tongues...they miss the real power of the Holy Spirit that empowers us at all times!!!
Grace, yes. But asking for God's grace when He's given a "way of escape" is somewhat redundant and foolish, NOW. So not following your point through.

Quote:
Lastly...your most troubling statement..."Let me tell you that Heaven is cheap at any price. I am willing to give up anything and everything if Christ convicts me to do so."

You are very sincere, it seems, but this is the very reckless assumption that you and so many other pentecostals make. You cannot buy heaven!!! You cannot not give up enough to get there!! You cannot sacrifice enough, give up enough, do enough, pray enough, give enough...do anything enough!! You cannot earn your way to heaven and it is only by God's incredible grace that we make it there!
A hearty "amen" to your concluding statement here.

I hear this quote often. Usually right after a preacher has taught on standards. It's manipulative.
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  #29  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:08 AM
TheLegalist TheLegalist is offline
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord View Post
I am a holiness preacher. I firmly believe that "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord."

The problem has ALWAYS been, and ALWAYS will be, whose definition of holiness is THE standard?

Even I, as a pastor, do NOT think that my role is the "holiness police." Adults are smart. They really do, for the most part, know what is right and wrong. However, I don't have a problem labeling anything that is sin, that is spelled out in the bible. I firmly preach faithfulness to one's spouse; against drunkenness, pornography, lying, cheating etc. I have found that in over 25 yrs of being a Sr. Pastor, that I have NEVER been able to change anyone's life or conduct. If I can encourage someone to surrender their life to Jesus Christ, sincerely and completely, everything always turns out just fine. It is those who don't do that, we can give all our time to trying to change them......if we're foolish enough to take that "bait!"

My job is a servant. My prime weapon is a towel and not a sword. I take it very personal if someone tells me that I don't believe in or preach holiness. I most certainly DO! I just may not do it to the degree that others do and maybe more so than some as well.
yeah.... do a little search on this. He is correct. I am not talking about standards but the mentality behind law and faithfulness. He is a softie... hard to lose your salvation and all.
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2010, 10:09 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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Re: Holiness Is Still Important

Titus 2:11,12 - For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.
I Corin. 1:8 - Blameless.
II Corin. 5:16,17 - If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. A new creature, a new creation, a new character.
II Corin. 5:10,11- For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your conscience.
II Corin. 6:14-17 - we are to be a separate people: separate from the character of the world.
II Corin. 7:1 - Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
II Corin. 10:3-5 - For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds; casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exaulteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
Galatians 5.15 - But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, walk in the spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 6:7-10 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the spirit shall of the spirit reap life everlasting.
Ephesians 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the earth, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 2:18-22 - an holy temple in the Lord.
Ephesians 4:22-32 - This is a perfect description of the life of holiness in the holy ghost. It is impossible to live in true holiness without the holy ghost because with out the holy ghost we have no power, Acts 1:8.
Ephesians 5:1-16 - These scriptures deal with the character of the Christian. Holiness is a pure character, undefiled by the sins of this world.
Ephesians 5:26-27 - That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself, a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 6:10-18 - We must put on the whole armor of God. We must have the character of Jesus Christ. It is impossible to have the power of God without having the character of God, which is holiness.
Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philipians 3:15-21 - If we are not careful we will be an enemy of Christ, and not even know it. We can be well meaning and still be wrong.
Philipians 4:8 - Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. This is true holiness.
Col. 1:21-23 -And you that were sometimes alienated, and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached unto every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.
Col. 1:26-28 - That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
Col. 3:1-25 - The whole chapter concerns holiness, or the character of the Christian.
I Thess. 3:13 - Unblameable in holiness - a flawless character.
I Thess. 4:3-8 - The character of a saint.
I Thess. 5:15-23 - And the very God of peace sanctify ye holy; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
II Tim. 2:19 - Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are his, and let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
II Tim. 2:21,22 - Flee also lusts; but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
II Tim. 3:1-5 - These scriptures describe the exact opposite of holiness: from such turn away.
Titus 1:14-16 - This also is the opposite of the character of a Christian.
Titus 3:1-6 - Not our own righteousness but according to his mercy, he saved us; by washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy ghost.
Hebrews 7:26 - The character of our high priest, Jesus Christ: Jesus is our example, Christian means Christ like. If we are not Christ like we shouldn't call ourselves a Christian.
Hebrews 8:10 - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws in their minds, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God and they shall be to me a people.
I Peter 1:13-19 - Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, be ye holy for I am holy.
I Peter 2:1-25 - The character of a Christian.
I Peter 4:1,2 - For as much as then as Christ has suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
II Peter 3:9-18 - Peter gives us a stern warning to live holy.
I John 1:1-6 - We must keep the word of God, to be saved.
I John 2:15,16 - Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the father, but is of the world.
I John 1:3-24 - The character of the Christian.
I John 5:18-21 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Revelations 3:2 - Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Revelation 3:20-22 - We must be an over comer.
Revelation 21:27 - and there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh an abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Revelation 22:11 - He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy let him be holy still.
Revelation 22:15 - For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolatress, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Matt. 5:1-12 - These are the principles of the kingdom of God - see verse 8 blessed are the pure in heart.
Matt. 5:19-48 - These are the laws of the kingdom of God.
Matt. 7:13,14 - Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matt. 12:33-36 - Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Matt. 22:37-40 - The character of the Christian.
Matt. 23:1-39 - Read whole chapter. - see verse 26. This is holiness.
Mark 7:21-23 - The opposite of holiness. We must cleanse ourselves of these by repentance and baptism.
Luke 16:14,15 - God knows our hearts.
Luke 19:8,9 - There must be a change.
Luke 21:34-36 - And take heed to yourselves, less at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all of them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the son of man.
Acts 24:14-16 - This is Paul's defense when he was falsely accused before Felix. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets; and have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Paul had a Godly character at all times.

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