Holiness Is Still Important

[pelathais]

Hi Proudfather - I'm proud too!

I don't agree with your statement about "why are we suddenly confused" about the uncut hair issue. I noticed that the quote you shared from the NLT didn't even mention uncut hair.

Historically, this is really a "new issue" among Apostolics. The farthest back I've been able to even trace the teaching is a 1937 article by S.G. Norris. My own family, which traces Apostolic roots back to GT Haywood and Howard Goss' ministries didn't stop trimming their hair until the social upheavals of the 1960s' were taking place.

Holiness not only "matters," it is essential. Adding the "uncut hair" doctrine to the apostle's doctrine however, is not "holiness" - IMHO. It's a bit profane.

The Word of God and the teachings of the First Century apostles are something that is very HOLY to me. This is sacred ground. Let's not bring in the "sacred cows" and others beasts from the world to trammel the Holy Place.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by proudfather

Wow, this is pretty funny. I knew that I would stir up a hornets’ nest, but I never expected it all to happen so fast!

Let me do my best to explain the difference between Television and Internet. I am ignorant and unlearned, as most of you continue to point out, but I have been with Jesus.

I can put filters on my internet that keep me from viewing certain websites. I don't have to view a video on YouTube or watch a dirty commercial on the internet if I don't want to. My internet usage consists of Bible reading, looking up Sermon Illustrations, reading book reviews (Christian novels), e-mails, and this website. I do view statistics every now and then as well.

TV can also be used for good. After all, you can watch Benny Hehn and learn how to perform miracles. :O You can even watch the Newsboys sing praise and worship choruses. Oh yeah, and you can watch UPCI advertisements. While there are some good things on TV, there is also a lot of garbage displayed through commercials. They have a TV in our break room at my job and they only play the "clean" shows. Funny thing is, I can't even grab a coke without HEARING something about sex. In waiting rooms, they usually have the TV set on news channels, but I've heard horrible comments coming out of the tube. This is just the news channels.

Well, when something bad comes on, you just change the channel, right? I wonder if some of you out there have you kids with you when you start channel surfing. Also, how do you know that your kids aren't watching garbage when your back is turned? Well, they can do that with the internet too, right? Not if you lock your computer when you step away from it.

Some of you are probably thinking, "he's just saying that because that's what his parents teach." I'm sorry to inform you of this, but my parents own a Television. Go ahead and mock me. Call me names. Insult my intelligence. I received my convictions from God and no man or woman is going to take that away from me.

No one is bashing you. Stop playing the victim. If you have convictions against tv, more power to you. What makes you think you can enforce your convictions on someone else? I have a conviction against porn and horror movies and nothing else. I am not claiming to be holy but you can keep your convictions to your self. What gives you the right to proclaim what is holy? We all have a bible and can read for ourselves.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

That's not really support then.

Your statement about legalism, oif course I agree with you.

••Yes, I think it is support. In fact, I think it's great support, because I would be applying wisdom to their decision and giving them prudence as to what they should expect. If they think the banned TV will solve their problem, they need to know that's probably not true.

But I don't see how keeping one's home a sanctuary will not help them. Or, since AQP brought up the Matthew parable, if one's eye is offending them, how plucking it out won't be helpful! Of course it will.

••What does that parable really mean, though? Let's face it...all of us see things that tempt us or even cause us to fall. So how come no one plucks their eye out? I've heard of people trying and they're institutionalized. There must be some other meaning to that parable? Care to take a stab?

It doesn't rid us of our problem. Which is why getting rid of a TV, or selective about movies, or filters on internet, is not about "do this and you're perfect and holy." It's accompanied by the Spirit, saying "Jesus you are LORD, and I'm setting up idols in my life that I'm worshippping (lust), and I worship you. If I truly believe you are LORD, I won't worship them. Help my unbelief." Then afterward, doing everything to make provision to avoid that trap.

••This is my point. Maybe getting rid of a TV will help. Maybe it won't. But the sin nature isn't going to disappear because I sell my TV in a rummage sale. ndavid said it very well. Just walk outside the house and there's plenty to tempt us. And since this is the case, maybe we should all gouge our eyes out. But no one's doing that, are they? That would hurt too much!

If it's a certain girl at work one flirts with overboard. They choose a different route. If it's a certain drive home where it goes right by the beach front with scantily clad women that creates an inferno of raging thoughts, then they choose a different route.

••But what about truly addressing the problem, through counseling, renewing of the mind, and being empowered by the Holy Spirit? Then one would be able to drive by the beach.......and not look! That's the victory, not wasting gas by driving an extra 20 miles around the beach.

If it means conversations have gone too far with a part of the opposite sex, they never allow alone conversations with that person. It's us being led by the Spirit, taking responsibility for our own actions. Grace has our back, but it's not going to let us lay down and bring our idols in.

I agree about grace. The thing is, the more I've experienced grace and understood it, the more I want to please my Father. Knowing that grace "has my back" and knowing that I can get back up and try again, is empowering!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by GraceAmazing

I think that is the whole point...If GOD gives YOU a conviction, then great...by all means live by that conviction...you will be miserable if you don't...

BUT...God may not give ME the same conviction...do not think or profess for one minute that I am not holy or that I'm not living a holiness life IF my convictions are different than yours...

I am thankful that God is speaking to you about boundaries for your life...and I'm equally thankful that you are listening...I came to this same crossroads about two years ago and I went thru this same process...one thing I learned was not EVERYONE will be on the same page...AND (SHOCKER HERE) it is okay!!!! God's spirit and commandments are welcome anytime in anyone's life that is on this board I am sure...welcome to AFF!

Great post, GA! I agree! I think we should always be respectful of anyone's personal convictions and that means the organization that they are members of who hold the same as well - even if we disagree.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by proudfather

Wow, this is pretty funny. I knew that I would stir up a hornets’ nest, but I never expected it all to happen so fast!

Let me do my best to explain the difference between Television and Internet. I am ignorant and unlearned, as most of you continue to point out, but I have been with Jesus.

I can put filters on my internet that keep me from viewing certain websites. I don't have to view a video on YouTube or watch a dirty commercial on the internet if I don't want to. My internet usage consists of Bible reading, looking up Sermon Illustrations, reading book reviews (Christian novels), e-mails, and this website. I do view statistics every now and then as well.

TV can also be used for good. After all, you can watch Benny Hehn and learn how to perform miracles. :O You can even watch the Newsboys sing praise and worship choruses. Oh yeah, and you can watch UPCI advertisements. While there are some good things on TV, there is also a lot of garbage displayed through commercials. They have a TV in our break room at my job and they only play the "clean" shows. Funny thing is, I can't even grab a coke without HEARING something about sex. In waiting rooms, they usually have the TV set on news channels, but I've heard horrible comments coming out of the tube. This is just the news channels.

Well, when something bad comes on, you just change the channel, right? I wonder if some of you out there have you kids with you when you start channel surfing. Also, how do you know that your kids aren't watching garbage when your back is turned? Well, they can do that with the internet too, right? Not if you lock your computer when you step away from it.

Some of you are probably thinking, "he's just saying that because that's what his parents teach." I'm sorry to inform you of this, but my parents own a Television. Go ahead and mock me. Call me names. Insult my intelligence. I received my convictions from God and no man or woman is going to take that away from me.

Where there is a will there is a way. I would imagine that ALL internet filtering software can be gotten around by a dedicated kid and google...

Besides if you as an adult do not have self control when you are watching TV to either change the channel or tune out what is being said then how can we expect you to not click on the picture of that sexy woman in the corner saying come chat with me.

[proudfather]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Where there is a will there is a way. I would imagine that ALL internet filtering software can be gotten around by a dedicated kid and google...

Besides if you as an adult do not have self control when you are watching TV to either change the channel or tune out what is being said then how can we expect you to not click on the picture of that sexy woman in the corner saying come chat with me.

Hmmm...I've been on the internet all day and I haven't seen that yet. Come to think of it...I never chat on the internet. Besides on this website of course...

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Where there is a will there is a way. I would imagine that ALL internet filtering software can be gotten around by a dedicated kid and google...

Boy, THAT'S the truth. At my son's high school, they had every filter known to mankind, and all the kids just laughed at it. They still got on anything they wanted.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by proudfather

Hmmm...I've been on the internet all day and I haven't seen that yet. Come to think of it...I never chat on the internet. Besides on this website of course...

ProudFather, can you do us a favor, though? No matter how this thread turns out, can you hang around and keep posting? I'm certain that I, and others, will have you changed within 6 months!

And can you answer what I pointed out in an earlier post about mocking and name-calling? No one here is doing that to you.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by notofworks

ProudFather, can you do us a favor, though? No matter how this thread turns out, can you hang around and keep posting? I'm certain that I, and others, will have you changed within 6 months!

And can you answer what I pointed out in an earlier post about mocking and name-calling? No one here is doing that to you.

I was about toooo....

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by proudfather

...
Some of you are probably thinking, "he's just saying that because that's what his parents teach." I'm sorry to inform you of this, but my parents own a Television. Go ahead and mock me. Call me names. Insult my intelligence. I received my convictions from God and no man or woman is going to take that away from me.

You appear to be susceptible to a variety of "voices" and "convictions." How do you really know that you "receive your convictions from God?"

I've already expressed concern about trammeling the holiness of God's Word with innovations and the traditions of men; what is your objective standard concerning "convictions" being given "by God?"

Why isn't everyone on the planet similarly "convicted" by the same Holy Spirit for the same things? (I'm bored with the TV/Internet debate as it actually should be more rooted in the matters of acceptable conversation and discourse... but that's another matter).

You appear to be "convicted" about the uncut hair issue. Why doesn't the Holy Spirit "convict" everyone on that (this is a bit more clear "cut" that TV). The Bible doesn't even say what you purported it to have said earlier on this issue. How can you trust these inner "convictions" you say that you receive to be any more godly than a Loreal shampoo commercial?