Tattoos

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

So you have issue with someone doing to themselves what Todd Bentley did to himself, even after thier conversion.

••Yes, Todd Bentley has tattoos. What does that have to do with the price of cashews at Wal-mart? Are you saying that because Bentley is a nutcase, that we shouldn't get tattoos like he does? He uses a microphone, drives a car, drinks water, pees when he needs to....should we stop doing those things?

Tattoos all over the place peircings, chains haning from the lip to the nose to the ear, maybe get some of those disguting ear rings that make your ear like 4 inches in diamater (I think their called 8 cauge or something like that). All thats fine becuase theres no health risk involved?

••It's not my thing. However, I know Christ-Followers who follow such fashions who have been HIGHLY effective in reaching those of that genre. I would never attempt to tell them their "Look" should be changed. They are making too big of a difference in the Kingdom that neither you nor I could EVER make in a lifetime.

Note, I am asking POST conversion. I certainly don't believe any sin, or how we look can keep us from God's love or grace when we come to him, but I still believe that after we come to him, we are to offer ourselves up for his service, and to live holy.

••I do too, but this has nothing to do with getting a tattoo.

Just because some folks have misinterpreted what holy living is and made it clothes and haircuts, doesn't mean we should throw out all holiness living.

••But you CANNOT forget that "Holiness" has NOTHING to do with your appearance. Nothing.

We are still commanded to come out from among them and be ye seperate, and to be ye holy (2 Corinthians 6/7 & 1 Peter 1:16) in the new Testament. I will offer a more detailed post later.

••But again, it is a stretch the size of our galaxy to try to apply this to tattoos.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Okay, so basically what your saying is we can do whatever we want to do with OUR bodies so long as it doesn't harm our health?

In my opinion, what we do with our bodies should not harm our health, our witness, or cause someone else to stumble (immodest clothing, for example).

Many tattoos can harm our witness I think. I don't think we can biblically tell someone they can't get a tattoo, but I personally wouldn't, because even in our culture tattoos can have a negative connotation. I've heard that the Marines won't take you if you have tattoos that your clothing wouldn't cover. They can hinder a job search. I just personally believe that it's best for our Christian witness to not have one. So I wouldn't. But I wouldn't look down on someone who did, either.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

In my opinion, what we do with our bodies should not harm our health, our witness, or cause someone else to stumble (immodest clothing, for example).

Many tattoos can harm our witness I think. I don't think we can biblically tell someone they can't get a tattoo, but I personally wouldn't, because even in our culture tattoos can have a negative connotation. I've heard that the Marines won't take you if you have tattoos that your clothing wouldn't cover. They can hinder a job search. I just personally believe that it's best for our Christian witness to not have one. So I wouldn't. But I wouldn't look down on someone who did, either.

But how far does, "Not cause someone to stumble" go? When I left the UPC, I caused many to stumble. Should I have stayed? And there is an entire sub-culture of tattoo afficianados who are being reached by Christ-Followers who have, themselves, become tattoo afficianados.

The context of "not causing someone to stumble" in the NT was refraining from certain activities when in their presence. The early NT Christians weren't asked to refrain completely, were they? If we apply that directly, if I have a tattoo and I'm with tattoo people, let it show. But if I'm with Jason, the stuffy, legalistic, party-pooper, I probably should wear long-sleeves. That's the direct application of NT exhortations to not become a stumbling block.

[smurfette]

My son says he's so good looking that he can't find any part of himself that he want to cover w/ a tat. I told him if he ever gets one it better say, "l love mom" on it!

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by smurfette

My son says he's so good looking that he can't find any part of himself that he want to cover w/ a tat. I told him if he ever gets one it better say, "l love mom" on it!

Amen!


I don't like tattoos and would never get one.
But it is part of our current culture. Among my coworkers nearly all of the under 40 crowd has one or more tattoos. And quite a few of the over 40 also have tattoos...........

Like it or not........it's here.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by commonsense

Amen!


I don't like tattoos and would never get one.
But it is part of our current culture. Among my coworkers nearly all of the under 40 crowd has one or more tattoos. And quite a few of the over 40 also have tattoos...........

Like it or not........it's here.

Yep, you are correct. Sounds like you're using "Common Sense!" As we all know, standardized, accepted culture goes down kicking and screaming. But it goes down. Eventually.

[A.W. Bowman]

An interesting subject - but one that most Conservative, Holy Standards preachers will most likely stay far away from on an open forum, such as this one.

From behind a pulpit, they can say most anything they want to without fear of being 'called down' for doing violence to the the word of God. For example, The source text for the subject of tattoo's is Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor imprint any marks upon you: I am the LORD. [JPS] And, this has been preached on a great many times.

But, what if someone said, "We need to take a good hard look at this issue in the context of the Word of God."? Well, what one mostly hears is a lot of sputtering, and 'I am the pastor, and I get to set the standards."

The doctrinal problem is that this verse is embedded in a long list of ordinances that the children of Israel were to follow - to the letter. Therefore, if one is to preach against tattoos for any reason other than the one given, we must also include the preaching in support of the other ordinances too, such as the one in the preceding verse: Lev 19:27, Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [JPS], which carries with it the implicit instruction for every man to grow their 'full' God given beards - and not to cut the hair on their hair too short!

Beards (facial hair) is not a sin - rather, according to Lev 19:27, it is a sin not to have a full beard.

However, I will not judge a man who does not have a beard to be unworthy of a God called and ordained ministry.
My favorite law reference remains 1Tim 1:7.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

An interesting subject - but one that most Conservative, Holy Standards preachers will most likely stay far away from on an open forum, such as this one.

From behind a pulpit, they can say most anything they want to without fear of being 'called down' for doing violence to the the word of God. For example, The source text for the subject of tattoo's is Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor imprint any marks upon you: I am the LORD. [JPS] And, this has been preached on a great many times.

But, what if someone said, "We need to take a good hard look at this issue in the context of the Word of God."? Well, what one mostly hears is a lot of sputtering, and 'I am the pastor, and I get to set the standards."

The doctrinal problem is that this verse is embedded in a long list of ordinances that the children of Israel were to follow - to the letter. Therefore, if one is to preach against tattoos for any reason other than the one given, we must also include the preaching in support of the other ordinances too, such as the one in the preceding verse: Lev 19:27, Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [JPS], which carries with it the implicit instruction for every man to grow their 'full' God given beards - and not to cut the hair on their hair too short!

Beards (facial hair) is not a sin - rather, according to Lev 19:27, it is a sin not to have a full beard.

However, I will not judge a man who does not have a beard to be unworthy of a God called and ordained ministry.
My favorite law reference remains 1Tim 1:7.

As usual, you say it very, very well. Thanks for your words of wisdom!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

The source text for the subject of tattoo's is Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor imprint any marks upon you: I am the LORD. [JPS] And, this has been preached on a great many times.

But, what if someone said, "We need to take a good hard look at this issue in the context of the Word of God."? Well, what one mostly hears is a lot of sputtering, and 'I am the pastor, and I get to set the standards."

The doctrinal problem is that this verse is embedded in a long list of ordinances that the children of Israel were to follow - to the letter. Therefore, if one is to preach against tattoos for any reason other than the one given, we must also include the preaching in support of the other ordinances too, such as the one in the preceding verse: Lev 19:27, Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [JPS], which carries with it the implicit instruction for every man to grow their 'full' God given beards - and not to cut the hair on their hair too short!

Beards (facial hair) is not a sin - rather, according to Lev 19:27, it is a sin not to have a full beard.

And Leviticus 19:29 says "Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore ; lest the land fall to whoredom , and the land become full of wickedness. "

So I guess its okay to pimp out our daughters? If we throw out Lev 19:28 because the verse that PRECEEDS it, then lets also ignore the verse which FOLLOWS it, obviously neither matter. Why their even in the Old Testament no one knows, probably because God didn't have to buy Lexmark ink every time he turned around and could waste words.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

And Leviticus 19:29 says "Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore ; lest the land fall to whoredom , and the land become full of wickedness. "

So I guess its okay to pimp out our daughters? If we throw out Lev 19:28 because the verse that PRECEEDS it, then lets also ignore the verse which FOLLOWS it, obviously neither matter. Why their even in the Old Testament no one knows, probably because God didn't have to buy Lexmark ink every time he turned around and could waste words.

Jason, you're abandoning every hermeneutical principle that's made you so good at understanding scripture at such a young age.

No one is saying here that since we don't necessarily obey a verse in Leviticus that we automatically don't obey any of them! Your reasoning here is without foundation. In fact, it's these very interpretational principles that YOU use to discredit the tithing institution of the Old Testament...which I agree with.

Here we have an Old Testament guideline that is stuck in the middle of numerous antiquated rules. Many of them are NOT reinforced in any way in the New Testament such as verse 27 which prohibits trimming he beard. OBVIOUSLY, there is New Testament principle that backs up verse 29, and honestly Jason, I'm wasting time covering it in this post.....because you know better. The same hermeneutical principles that have helped you understand that tithing is no longer an absolute giving guideline, are the same principles that no longer require us to follow Old Testament tattoooing rules.

Come on, Jason...you're backed into a corner here. It's ok to say, "Uncle" and tell me you support my desire to get a tattoo!