Why Acts 2:38? - Page 10

mfblume · #91 08-05-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

If it's not about salvation then Acts 2:38 is only applicable to those who directly were involved in the death of Christ and isn't really Peter telling them how to be saved but something else. That explanation doesn't make any sense. Telling them to repent (of their sin of killing the Christ) makes sense but what does being baptized and receiving the Holy Spirit have to do with being responsible for killing Christ?

Right. How can Acts 2:38 be solely for a national guilt from which one has to be made free?

jfrog · #92 08-05-2010, 09:55 AM

Romans 8:9-11

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:14-16

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Did Cornelius receive the Holy Ghost before being baptized? YES!
So then Cornelius was not in the flesh before his baptism but instead in the Spirit. In fact since he was in the Spirit and had the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him then Romans 8:11 says that his mortal body would also be quickened. Further, since he had the Spirit of God then Romans 8:14-16 says he was a child of God.

The only conclusion I can draw is that Cornelius must have been saved before his baptism.

mfblume · #93 08-05-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Did Cornelius receive the Holy Ghost before being baptized? NO!

What? You must have mistyped that.

jfrog · #94 08-05-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

What? You must have mistyped that.

I did. Thanks for the correction. I changed it in my original post.

Pressing-On · #95 08-05-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm taking a myoptic look at Acts 2:38 in this response. IOW, I'm only looking at Acts 2:38 and nothing else. There is nothing in Acts 2:38 that addresses speaking with other tongues. We have to make an assumption that those Peter is addressing will know that they have been baptized with the Holy Spirit because we are assuming that they will receive the Spirit the same way that Peter and the other disciples did with the evidence of speaking with other tongues.

It is when we expand outside of chapter 2 we find other evidence that stacks up and confirms our assumption.

Thanks, Mizpeh! I wasn't sure where you were going with that earlier post. I read it three times thinking, "That isn't the Mizpeh that I'm used to reading." LOL!

It would be hard to read Acts 2:38 with a narrow view, unless, that is the only scripture you read in the entire chapter. But, I see what you are saying.

Brad Murphy · #96 08-05-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm taking a myoptic look at Acts 2:38 in this response. IOW, I'm only looking at Acts 2:38 and nothing else. There is nothing in Acts 2:38 that addresses speaking with other tongues. We have to make an assumption that those Peter is addressing will know that they have been baptized with the Holy Spirit because we are assuming that they will receive the Spirit the same way that Peter and the other disciples did with the evidence of speaking with other tongues.

It is when we expand outside of chapter 2 we find other evidence that stacks up and confirms our assumption.

But should religion be based on assumptions?

BroGary · #97 08-05-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Romans 8:9-11

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:14-16

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Did Cornelius receive the Holy Ghost before being baptized? YES!
So then Cornelius was not in the flesh before his baptism but instead in the Spirit. In fact since he was in the Spirit and had the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him then Romans 8:11 says that his mortal body would also be quickened. Further, since he had the Spirit of God then Romans 8:14-16 says he was a child of God.

The only conclusion I can draw is that Cornelius must have been saved before his baptism.

No offense intended bro, but obviously the apostle understood the necessity of also being baptized in water and that is why he commanded them to be baptized, because it wasn't simply a nice "extra" but a must -

Acts 10:47,48 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

mfblume · #98 08-05-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroGary

No offense intended bro, but obviously the apostle understood the necessity of also being baptized in water and that is why he commanded them to be baptized, because it wasn't simply a nice "extra" but a must -

Acts 10:47,48 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Right. Either way it was a MUST.

jfrog · #99 08-05-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroGary

No offense intended bro, but obviously the apostle understood the necessity of also being baptized in water and that is why he commanded them to be baptized, because it wasn't simply a nice "extra" but a must -

Acts 10:47,48 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I'm only arguing that Cornelius was saved before he was baptized. Nothing more, nothing less. Romans 8 says he was. Do you have an explanation as to how these things can be or are you simply going to try and redirect to the verses you feel more comfortable with?

Pressing-On · #**100** 08-05-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm only arguing that Cornelius was saved before he was baptized. Nothing more, nothing less. Romans 8 says he was. Do you have an explanation as to how these things can be or are you simply going to try and redirect to the verses you feel more comfortable with?

Cornelius was saved before he was baptized? Really? Why did the angel say, "....he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do."

And Romans 8 begins by saying, "...to them that are in Christ..."