A more accurate discription of what I have been saying is that when I see others walking the path I have walked I am happy to tell them to stop laying in the ditch and complaining about being dirty.
get up and walk friend. Its a long hard slog but the slogers eventually get down the path.
those that lay in the ditch and yelp just get dirty and cold.
Look, there are plenty of folks around here that will pat you on the head and tell you youve been done wrong. you dont need me to join the chourus.
this place needs 5 or 10 folks willing to provide the other voice that says, sure youve gotten crosswise with someone and come out on the short end of the stick, but get up, move on, and be better not bitter.
Peace to you Mr. Smith I hope you find what your looking for. And I hope you get over your issues with the mythical "system"
You mistake my distaste for organized denominational religion for bitterness, needing a pat on the head, and searching for something. Such is not the case.
I actively speak out against anything that misrepresents the grace of Jesus Christ and will continue to. It has nothing to do with "Searching" or "Bitterness", "Whining" or "back-pats" and has everything to do with truth.
My search for peace was over many years ago and if you choose to believe that "The System" is a myth, then more power to ya. You're welcome to live in the world you've chosen to create.
eh. might be. Or maybe it is just another perspective that needs to be stated.
but really there is a great deal of OP bashing here that has nothing to do with those that are working thru their issues.
There is a whole set of non-sense that takes place here by a group that is determined to "bring down the mother ship"
those I simply have nothing but antipathy for. the slogers in misery just need to hear some voice telling them to move on.
the Quixotic few need the back of the hand.
I agree with some of your analogy. Unforgiveness is one of the mainstays of why people walk around pointing fingers at others for the mistakes they are currently making. I do believe we must learn to move on in life, not holding grudges and becoming bitter.
On the flip side, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever been sexually molested as a child?
What I'm trying to say is, people have experiences in life that will affect them until they take their last breath. Telling someone who's been molested to just "Get Over It", may not be the best approach in helping that person to heal and move on in life with a certain amount of dignity.
When a child has been branded with this kind of abuse, the mind and spirit will struggle in many ways that may not even be recognized by the individual. I've been married to my wife for 30 years, and to this day she carries a heavy burden in her soul because of being sexually abused by her father from the time she was an infant until she was 9 years old.
You might never know she went through this if you met her, but I live with her every day, and her tears have been many. It wasn't until we had been married for over 20 years, that she began to tell me more of what happened to her. Time slowly revealed this very dark time in her life, and what her father did to her is beyond sick.
As children, we are engrained and educated to become an adult, and the fiber of who we become is greatly predicated upon what happened to us. In fact, we tell this to the parents in Church who are raising children. Garbage in, garbage out; you’ll reap what you sow.
This experience has helped me to listen to people a little better, not shut them down with, "Put your Big Boy pants on". I was much more prone to tell people this kind of thing in the past, but this really doesn’t change the person within. We can make people do something by coming down hard on them, but does this only drive the problem deeper? Does it cause the person to live in further denial? Are they really healed if we just cut their arm off?
This Forum is a place to express and open up, and giving people that chance may have a far greater affect on a person’s actual SELF than we realize. When the BIG MACHINE of Religion is rolling down the road, well, you know what they say, “Get in, Get out, or Get run over!” People can feel very small when the Untouchables sit on the platform, putting the throttle to the floor when they preach or counsel, squashing the disagreeable with their AUTHORITY. If God’s man says it, you obey it! Later, when this “Man” falls or becomes a religious NUT, he leaves behind him, you guess it, PEOPLE; people who trusted, people who obeyed, and people who are now confused.
You say everyone has a story to tell; that’s true. And, every story is different. Those raised in the Bible Belt have no idea what’s it’s like to attend church in the Northwest, where the churches are all small, and the next church is 100 miles away. You say you’re in ministry. Are you a pastor? Have you started a Home Missions church? Have you had almost your entire church walk out on you, leaving you almost bankrupt?
Some live with the silver spoon, and lack great understanding. Our current ministerial training in the UPCI is horrible. We’ve got untold numbers of licensed ministers sitting on church pews, afraid to go out and do a serious work for God. At a recent Conference, an Elder stood up and challenged these men who just carry a license because it makes them feel important.
I recently spoke with a Pastor looking to retire. He built this church from scratch. He’s located up here where congregations are small. He’s had a few heart attacks and open heart surgery. He’s tired and has asked for a younger man to come in and take over his Church. They call, asking if he has a parsonage and if the Tithe base is big enough to pay a salary. When he tells them, no, they don’t call again. He can’t believe the lack of commitment in today’s young men.
There are real issues in our Religion, laziness or fear of suffering being one of them. We are fat, full, and rich. Church has become an entertainment center, and it’s all about the next big evangelist, or the next big Conference. We motorcade the Mega Church, and forget about the small one, where Pastors live isolated and difficult lives. Large Churches may harbor 25 piano players, while the far and forsaken are singing with no music. We've become horribly imbalanced.
We also have carried around our great weight of arrogance. We have it, and others don't. We're saved, and they're lost. We're holy, and they are unholy. After a while, people begin to see we are just like everybody else and that our radical claim of "WE HAVE THE TRUTH" is what everyone else is saying.
People's experiences may have serious limitations, and that is why they tell people to just deal with their “Stuff” and move on, but severity does play a solemn role in all of this.
This experience has helped me to listen to people a little better, not shut them down with, "Put your Big Boy pants on". I was much more prone to tell people this kind of thing in the past, but this really doesn’t change the person within. We can make people do something by coming down hard on them, but does this only drive the problem deeper? Does it cause the person to live in further denial? Are they really healed if we just cut their arm off?
Exactly. When I hear "put your big boy pants on", I hear "I don't give a rip what happened to you, just don't bother me with it".
Quote:
You say everyone has a story to tell; that’s true. And, every story is different. Those raised in the Bible Belt have no idea what’s it’s like to attend church in the Northwest, where the churches are all small, and the next church is 100 miles away. You say you’re in ministry. Are you a pastor? Have you started a Home Missions church? Have you had almost your entire church walk out on you, leaving you almost bankrupt?
I used to be in ministry, started a Home Missions church with my husband and later, in an established work, had almost an entire church walk out on us, some who sued my husband and accused him of breaching his "fiduciary duty", harrassed us for years, finally dropping the lawsuit. When we arrived, there was $1900.00 in the bank, overdue bills, a land loan for 14% interest because the previous pastor could not get a loan at a bank because of lack of financial records, checks written out of the expense account for the previous pastor's Harley Davidson motorcycle. When we reported this to the district they rolled over and played dead and/or began accusing us.
Quote:
Some live with the silver spoon, and lack great understanding.
When you've got the silver spoon, things can be pretty gravy. When you are from the outside, don't have connections and point out problems, you get a whole cartload of manure.
Quote:
We also have carried around our great weight of arrogance. We have it, and others don't. We're saved, and they're lost. We're holy, and they are unholy. After a while, people begin to see we are just like everybody else and that our radical claim of "WE HAVE THE TRUTH" is what everyone else is saying.
The have's walked around bragging about having "the truth" while my family died and "went to hell" and I was left to sort it all out.
All this because a religion capitalized on my wonderful experience with God and I was too ignorant to see it for what it was.
Never again as long as it is within my power to say and do so will I allow this to happen. I love God and He understands it all. I rarely even attend church anymore and I'm happier now than I've been in years.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Shoes, plants and electric cords never found safety.
Roscoe ate everything, his hunger was too hasty.
Mr. Pressing didn't like ole Roscoe
He often said all dogs must go
But Roscoe loved Pressing
and Pressing loved Roscoe.
We will miss the ongoing saga
of Roscoe rambunctious romps
A tale as twisted as the Huallaga
and full of things he did chomp.
Good night dear friend
you shall be missed.
If dogs do go to heaven
don't let Mr. Pressing be a witness!
I always enjoyed this one!
A DOG NAMED BO
He came to me when I would call,
unless I had a tennis ball, - or he felt like it.
But mostly--he didn't come at all.
When he was young, he never learned,
to heel, or sit or stay, he did things his way.
Discipline was not his bag,
but when you were with him,
things sure didn't drag.
He'd dig up a rose bush just to spite me,
and when I'd grab 'im he'd turn and bite me.
He bit lots of folks from day to day,
the deliv'ry boy was his favorite prey.
The gas man wouldn't read our meter,
he said we owned a real man-eater.
He sat the house on fire,
but the story's long to tell;
Suffice to say that he survived,
and, the house survived as well.
And on evening walks (and Gloria took him),
he was always first out the door.
The old one and I, brought up the rear
because our bones were sore.
And he'd charge up the street
with Mom hangin' on,
what a beautiful pair they were.
And if it was still light,
and the tourists were out,
they created a bit of a stir!
But every once in awhile
he'd stop in his tracks
and with a frown on his face, look around.
It was just t'make sure,
that the old one was there,
to follow him where he was bound.
We're early-to-bedders in our house
I guess I'm the first to retire,
and as I'd leave the room, he'd look at me
and get up from his place by the fire.
He knew where the tennis balls were, upstairs
and I'd give 'im one for awhile,
and he'd push it under the bed with his nose
and I'd dig it out with a smile.
But before very long, he'd tire of the ball
and he'd be asleep in his corner in no time at all,
and there where nights when I'd feel him climb up on our bed
and lie between us, and I'd pat his head;
and there were nights when I'd feel this stare,
and I'd wake up and he'd be sitting there,
and I'd reach out to stroke his hair;
and sometimes I'd feel him sigh,
and I think I know the reason why.
He'd wake up at night,
and he would have this fear
of the dark, of life, of lot's of things,
and he'd be glad to have me near.
And now he's dead.
And there are nights when I think I feel him
climb up on our bed,
and lie between us, and I pat his head;
and there are nights when I think I feel that stare,
and I reach out my hand to stroke his hair,
and he's not there.
Oh, how I wish that wasn't so,
I'll always love a dog named Bo.
Jimmy Stewart 1908 - 1997
(recited on Johnny Carson's show....... made Johnny cry at that.)
__________________
"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant!
I have ... Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia! The fear of long words.
"Prediction is very hard, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave in reflection." - Thomas Paine
I agree with some of your analogy. Unforgiveness is one of the mainstays of why people walk around pointing fingers at others for the mistakes they are currently making. I do believe we must learn to move on in life, not holding grudges and becoming bitter.
On the flip side, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever been sexually molested as a child?
What I'm trying to say is, people have experiences in life that will affect them until they take their last breath. Telling someone who's been molested to just "Get Over It", may not be the best approach in helping that person to heal and move on in life with a certain amount of dignity.
When a child has been branded with this kind of abuse, the mind and spirit will struggle in many ways that may not even be recognized by the individual. I've been married to my wife for 30 years, and to this day she carries a heavy burden in her soul because of being sexually abused by her father from the time she was an infant until she was 9 years old.
You might never know she went through this if you met her, but I live with her every day, and her tears have been many. It wasn't until we had been married for over 20 years, that she began to tell me more of what happened to her. Time slowly revealed this very dark time in her life, and what her father did to her is beyond sick.
As children, we are engrained and educated to become an adult, and the fiber of who we become is greatly predicated upon what happened to us. In fact, we tell this to the parents in Church who are raising children. Garbage in, garbage out; you’ll reap what you sow.
This experience has helped me to listen to people a little better, not shut them down with, "Put your Big Boy pants on". I was much more prone to tell people this kind of thing in the past, but this really doesn’t change the person within. We can make people do something by coming down hard on them, but does this only drive the problem deeper? Does it cause the person to live in further denial? Are they really healed if we just cut their arm off?
This Forum is a place to express and open up, and giving people that chance may have a far greater affect on a person’s actual SELF than we realize. When the BIG MACHINE of Religion is rolling down the road, well, you know what they say, “Get in, Get out, or Get run over!” People can feel very small when the Untouchables sit on the platform, putting the throttle to the floor when they preach or counsel, squashing the disagreeable with their AUTHORITY. If God’s man says it, you obey it! Later, when this “Man” falls or becomes a religious NUT, he leaves behind him, you guess it, PEOPLE; people who trusted, people who obeyed, and people who are now confused.
You say everyone has a story to tell; that’s true. And, every story is different. Those raised in the Bible Belt have no idea what’s it’s like to attend church in the Northwest, where the churches are all small, and the next church is 100 miles away. You say you’re in ministry. Are you a pastor? Have you started a Home Missions church? Have you had almost your entire church walk out on you, leaving you almost bankrupt?
Some live with the silver spoon, and lack great understanding. Our current ministerial training in the UPCI is horrible. We’ve got untold numbers of licensed ministers sitting on church pews, afraid to go out and do a serious work for God. At a recent Conference, an Elder stood up and challenged these men who just carry a license because it makes them feel important.
I recently spoke with a Pastor looking to retire. He built this church from scratch. He’s located up here where congregations are small. He’s had a few heart attacks and open heart surgery. He’s tired and has asked for a younger man to come in and take over his Church. They call, asking if he has a parsonage and if the Tithe base is big enough to pay a salary. When he tells them, no, they don’t call again. He can’t believe the lack of commitment in today’s young men.
There are real issues in our Religion, laziness or fear of suffering being one of them. We are fat, full, and rich. Church has become an entertainment center, and it’s all about the next big evangelist, or the next big Conference. We motorcade the Mega Church, and forget about the small one, where Pastors live isolated and difficult lives. Large Churches may harbor 25 piano players, while the far and forsaken are singing with no music. We've become horribly imbalanced.
We also have carried around our great weight of arrogance. We have it, and others don't. We're saved, and they're lost. We're holy, and they are unholy. After a while, people begin to see we are just like everybody else and that our radical claim of "WE HAVE THE TRUTH" is what everyone else is saying.
People's experiences may have serious limitations, and that is why they tell people to just deal with their “Stuff” and move on, but severity does play a solemn role in all of this.
well that was a mouthful! good grief.
First of all I dont know where you get the idea that anything I have said would in relation to being tired of hearing folks ranting about the church being mean to them relates in any way to dealing harshly with someone who has been molested! Great googly moogly!
What an absolute insane idea! you have issues bro. you need some professional help.
As for the rest of what youve said... well... err... I just dont know what to say. lazy and fat. got it. yep. its true. lots of that. has nothing to do with Mr. Smith ranting along about the system being mean to him.
As much as the forum is a place for people to open up, there are a number of people that are here simply to blast away at the UPCI. it is thier whole purpose for being here. I have nothing for those people in the way of understanding. They have issues. deep seated personal issues. And they need to be told they have issues.
Those (as I have said repeatedly here) those that are just dealing with hurt, well, there are plenty of folks here who will be a good shoulder to cry on. You seem to be willing to play that role.
someone needs to tell them to get up and move on. now they have heard it.
Not, I am sorry but your rant here is just strange. the very idea that I would be vicious toward someone who has suffered molestation! My God what is wrong with you?
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
First of all I dont know where you get the idea that anything I have said would in relation to being tired of hearing folks ranting about the church being mean to them relates in any way to dealing harshly with someone who has been molested! Great googly moogly!
What an absolute insane idea! you have issues bro. you need some professional help.
As for the rest of what youve said... well... err... I just dont know what to say. lazy and fat. got it. yep. its true. lots of that. has nothing to do with Mr. Smith ranting along about the system being mean to him.
As much as the forum is a place for people to open up, there are a number of people that are here simply to blast away at the UPCI. it is thier whole purpose for being here. I have nothing for those people in the way of understanding. They have issues. deep seated personal issues. And they need to be told they have issues.
Those (as I have said repeatedly here) those that are just dealing with hurt, well, there are plenty of folks here who will be a good shoulder to cry on. You seem to be willing to play that role.
someone needs to tell them to get up and move on. now they have heard it.
Not, I am sorry but your rant here is just strange. the very idea that I would be vicious toward someone who has suffered molestation! My God what is wrong with you?
I will pray for you, Ferd.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
....Not judging anyone, just writing a hearfelt thought.
Life is full of heart aches. It's only through pain, faith, determination, trust, hard work, self-confidence, failures, re-evaluation, commitment, and much more; that we ultimately develop the deeper levels of maturity that God is calling all of us toward. As I read this thread, I'm left realizing that there are two kinds of people. Those who are cry-babies and those who've grown up enough to understand that despite the obsticles and trials in life, the only way to overcome them is to buckle down, put our nose to the wheel and move on through them, past them, despite of them.
With declared intentions of "wanting to improve things", the cry-baby continues with their railings of "how wrong things are". (I, myself have done this so much, I'm an expert!) Truly, this only serves to exacerbate the problems while keeping themselves, and others of like mindset, trapped in the "pity-party" mode. Poking at others who are working on, or in the midst of moving on, is another tactic that the cry-baby will use as an effort to bring them back to the party.
For a person to sincerely move on, past the trials and hurts of this life; takes a personal understanding that the blaming has to stop! That they themselves will have to let go of the hurtful past, pick themselves up and make the effort to carry themselves into a place that they don't yet know exists. Hearing this is not pleasant for someone who is not wanting to go there. And in my opinion, people already know that this is what they have to do, but they still can't let go of the hurt long enough to get past it.
Personally, I think I'm ready for some big boy pants.
Linear Mode
