Burning the Koran - Page 18

Aquila · #**171** 09-09-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This underscores my point. If this is all true then we are afraid of muslim extremists. Everyone of those protesters in other nations are potential enemies but will pacifying them fix the over all problem?

I don't believe we should "pacify" anyone, especially anyone overseas. My point is that with freedom comes responsibility. This pastor is using his so called "freedom of speech" to inflame not only foreign nationals...but local nutcases. I don't see it as pacifying. Our troops are struggling to win the hearts and minds of villages and locals. They depend on these people to be translators and informants. If this pastor's actions enrage a significant number of people where our troops are serving...their translators and informants might choose to misinform them and thus endanger the lives of our troops, hense aiding the enemy in this war. Not to mention, this pastor's actions will give fuel to extremists in their recruitment efforts. At the end of the day, this pastor's actions are aiding the enemy in time of war. Stopping him, denouncing him, condemning him isn't appeasment. It's a wise course of action to ensure military victory and to save lives.

Aquila · #**172** 09-09-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

some might think the UPC as an organization falls into that class

The UPCI can be rather extreme. No doubt. That's why I think Christians shouldn't be so politically focused...but rather KINGDOM focused.

Twisp · #**173** 09-09-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Imam Rauf has a right to build a cultural center wherever he legally can, and Terry Jones has a right to burn whatever he legally can.

I see it differently. No one has a "right" to build a church or mosque. Zoning laws can prevent their establishment and construction. Also, no one has the right to say "anything" they like. You can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded building. It endangers life. Therefore if one one says truly might endanger life... you can legally stop them from saying it. One cannot "tell" the enemy information that will aid them in their cause. It's "treason", though it's a form of speech. Why is it illegal? Because it will endanger lives.[/QUOTE]

That is why I said anywhere they "legally" can.

Aquila · #**174** 09-09-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It has always been a political-religious entity. It began with the death of Muhammad and the Caliphate being the religious state where ever Muslims lived. The Caliph ruled the Caliphate and set up the administrative and judicial organization of the Muslim community. In Sharia Law the Caliph is to be obeyed in everything. He is much like the Catholic pope (infallible) and cannot be charged with any crime - murder, rape, etc.

Basically, Islamism is structured on the same lines as Communism and National Socialism.

True. The complexity comes with it being a "religion". Is it possible to classify something like this as a body politic instead of a religion? What elements could be used to differentiate it from a "religion"?

Aquila · #**175** 09-09-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

NO, it won't. It's deep seated and encompassing.

So the answer is to put our troops in more danger and fuel our enemy's rage? Leading to loosing our contacts and informants in Iraq and Afghanistan over a pastor burning a book? Get real. He's endangering our troops, endangering citizens, and aiding the enemy. It's not appeasement. It's common sense.

Aquila · #**176** 09-09-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Bottom line: Muslims hate freedom of speech and freedom of religion, except when it comes to them?

Are American Muslims different? I'd like to see a poll asking if they think Christians should be allowed to build churches in SA

Extremists Muslims shout "Death to America" (get's a little tired, why not change it to "blah blah blah"?), why do they not instead should "Death to Terry Jones"?

Because they don't blame him, they blame America.

Jones is endangering troops, citizens, and aiding the enemy with his actions.

Aquila · #**177** 09-09-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisp

That is why I said anywhere they "legally" can.

Amen. You don't have a right to build anything, it has to be legal. Also you can't yell "fire" in a crowded mall. Freedom speech doesn't extend to expressions that put lives in danger.

Praxeas · #**178** 09-09-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisp

I see it differently. No one has a "right" to build a church or mosque. Zoning laws can prevent their establishment and construction. Also, no one has the right to say "anything" they like. You can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded building. It endangers life. Therefore if one one says truly might endanger life... you can legally stop them from saying it. One cannot "tell" the enemy information that will aid them in their cause. It's "treason", though it's a form of speech. Why is it illegal? Because it will endanger lives.

That is why I said anywhere they "legally" can.

....what if there really was a fire though?

Pressing-On · #**179** 09-09-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

So the answer is to put our troops in more danger and fuel our enemy's rage? Leading to loosing our contacts and informants in Iraq and Afghanistan over a pastor burning a book? Get real. He's endangering our troops, endangering citizens, and aiding the enemy. It's not appeasement. It's common sense.

I was speaking of appeasement in general and not this Koran burning incident. You know I do not approve of a Christian group acting in that way.

Debra Burlingame of 9/11 Families For A Safe And Strong America saw exactly what I saw when I listened to Imam Rauf's interview.

"When will it end? He will have his embassy on top of Ground Zero and he can continue basically saying, in terms of domestic and foreign policy, 'do what I want, do what we say or the fanatics will take over and make you pay,'" Debra Burlingame of 9/11 Families For A Safe And Strong America said.

It IS bargaining with the devil.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...ultimatum.html

Pressing-On · #**180** 09-09-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

True. The complexity comes with it being a "religion". Is it possible to classify something like this as a body politic instead of a religion? What elements could be used to differentiate it from a "religion"?

I consider Islam a body politic. I always have. Letting go of the political elements adherent in Sharia Law. We have rules at our church, but if I don't agree, I'm free to walk out the door. No one is going to behead me for that.