Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movement

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by ILG

Well, yes, I suppose that could happen and probably needs to in the environment we are in today (meaning big government). But, I think we are no longer a communal society because of this. Which came first the chicken or the egg and would people be more communal with less government?

Great question. I believe social science theorists would say it's a "both/and" answer.

We aren't a communal society because of things like the Industrial revolution that created massive cities. We aren't a communal society because of population growth. We aren't a communal society because of globalization. We aren't a communal society because slowly people stopped living in a physical small community, and so the ways of that small community were adapted.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Great question. I believe social science theorists would say it's a "both/and" answer.

We aren't a communal society because of things like the Industrial revolution that created massive cities. We aren't a communal society because of population growth. We aren't a communal society because of globalization. We aren't a communal society because slowly people stopped living in a physical small community, and so the ways of that small community were adapted.

Amazingly, the Amish do what they do mostly to stay communal. This is one of the main reasons why they accept or reject certain inventions.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Uh... I've taken classes in sociology

Everything you said here reinforces the "leap in logic" factor

Socialism is an extreme. It also is an idea of how government should work. It's amoral in theory. It's amazing to me how we view it as evil. Communism, the logical governing-next step carries with it more reason to be skeptical of its moral value as a system of government. While I think Socialism is a faulty method of governing and can even prove disasterous, neither do I believe it's evil as an idea. Would you befriend a brother who believed in the Socialistic model of government, Coadie?

Back to the point, connecting social justice to communism is indeed a drastic leap in logic, and very much unfounded.

The closest I have observed to socialism is Hutterite colonies.

Our leap to socialism includes cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.

They argue that this creates an unequal society that fails to provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential.

Social justice takes socialism forward and says we must catch up and give people jobs they didn't earn and income they didn't earn. Equalize it.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by coadie

The closest I have observed to socialism is Hutterite colonies.

Our leap to socialism includes cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.

They argue that this creates an unequal society that fails to provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential.

Social justice takes socialism forward and says we must catch up and give people jobs they didn't earn and income they didn't earn. Equalize it.

Yes, the Hutterites too.

One thing we need to remember though, is whenever you trade freedom for security, you have problems. Since the hutterite society is regulated, they are like a small form of socialistic government.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by ILG

Amazingly, the Amish do what they do mostly to stay communal. This is one of the main reasons why they accept or reject certain inventions.

They live in villages that are close because of their slow travel and desire to not mingle with the "English"

They raise barns together and pool medical expenses. They do have private property ownership.

[coadie]

Socialists characterise full socialism as a society no longer based on coercive wage-labour, organized on the basis of relatively equal power-relations and adhocracy rather than hierarchical, bureaucratic forms of organization in the productive sphere. Reformists and revolutionary socialists disagree on how a socialist economy should be established.

Social justice is adding several doses of coercion to socialism.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by coadie

The closest I have observed to socialism is Hutterite colonies.

Our leap to socialism includes cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.

They argue that this creates an unequal society that fails to provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential.

Social justice takes socialism forward and says we must catch up and give people jobs they didn't earn and income they didn't earn. Equalize it.

Not understanding what you are saying here. Truly.

As far as your last paragraph, some social justice advocates certainly believe in types of systems that involve creating the idea of "equal opportunity." Not all who defend the poor, powerless and weak are supporters of things like Affirmative Action. That's a broad generalization. However, they would support programs to help certain population segments overcome the cycle of poverty, which becomes an oppressive mentality and self-image.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by coadie

They live in villages that are close because of their slow travel and desire to not mingle with the "English"

They raise barns together and pool medical expenses. They do have private property ownership.

Of course they live in a system where all care for each other. In a larger sense, this is a picture of Socialism. It's safer in smaller populations.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by coadie

Social justice is adding several doses of coercion to socialism.

How so?

And if something is unjust (ie, slavery), should legislative enforcement be something we'd support?


Is all coercion bad?

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by coadie

You mentioned charity. That is different than social justice.

By the way, I understand legislation. I have also read the constitution. We are endowed by the Creator the right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness.

It doesn't say right to an equal share of prosperity.
Actually Mormoms are very capitalistic. They are distinctly against socialism.

WOW!!

That misquote is from the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution.