Biblical Holiness

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

That is outright bondage and hypocrisy. Those members seem like they are pleasing their Pastor instead of our Lord Jesus Christ. Paul admonishes us in

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

If we do not stand fast in our liberty, man will put us in bondage again...

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

I agree. The members are actually told they would be better off backsliding than to go to another Apostolic church even if that church is a 3 step/standard preaching church. The reason is the other churches don't preach standards 3 times a month or so or don't constantly preach against TVs or owning TVs or believe video is ok and wedding bands are ok etc etc

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Justin

Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. Is a Pastor who teaches non-biblical doctrines following Christ?

no

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

For those who believe that women can't wear jewelery, pants or makeup and can't cut their hair, can you provide scripture to support your beliefs? Should we obey ministers and elders that teach this just because we should return to the "old paths" and obey the previous generation? Why should we follow these doctrines? This is a serious question, not sarcastic.

Can you demonstrate how liberal changes have proven to be beneficial?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by coadie

Can you demonstrate how liberal changes have proven to be beneficial?

well, I can't come up with stats for individuals as to how they are better off without the "standards" nor can I name churches and how they may be better off since dropping the "standards."

I personally feel like I am a better person without having a list of "do and don't" rules by which to guide my life. I have had someone who is "out of church" who told my wife that they like us better now that we don't live that way.

A couple of problems I have seen over the years with the "standards" type thing is that people's religion is more rules than it is relationship, that they are OK with God if they can check themselves against a list of rules, but a downside is that people are fearful that they may break a rule at the last minute before Jesus comes and miss the rapture. Also, I've seen too many sour puss Christians who looked the part with the hair and clothes but give off a haughty, judgmental, holier than thou aura.

This is just based on personal observation and is nothing concrete that could be used in a debate on "standards"

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by coadie

Can you demonstrate how liberal changes have proven to be beneficial?

I really don't have the experience to answer you since I haven't been to any liberal Apostolic churches. I have seen PAW church with women fixed up and they seem to be OK. I think liberalism leads to a less judgemental atmosphere though I'm not sure it is a more spiritual one. That is why I asked the question in the first place.

If you believe in religous conservatism, what scriptures do you use to support your beliefs?

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

I really don't have the experience to answer you since I haven't been to any liberal Apostolic churches. I have seen PAW church with women fixed up and they seem to be OK. I think liberalism leads to a less judgemental atmosphere though I'm not sure it is a more spiritual one. That is why I asked the question in the first place.

If you believe in religous conservatism, what scriptures do you use to support your beliefs?

"religious conservatism" is not a biblical expression.

I am a student of the bible and really don't waste time arguing regarding vocabulary words that are not scriptural.

It kinda puts you in the same predicament. You can't argue the other side of the coin.

Apparently the liberal dressed up churches are doing so to be seen by other people.

I do see a very strong trend that people use their culture to interpret scripture.

[scotty]

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

1 John 2:15-17 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Romans 12:2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

I know all of these can be disputed either way , but this is the way I see things. I'm not a standards holder, but I believe we understand what the above is saying. Who choses what of the world we should not be apart of is the fence that seperates many. I don't have that answer.

[OnTheFritz]

Originally Posted by coadie

"religious conservatism" is not a biblical expression.

I am a student of the bible and really don't waste time arguing regarding vocabulary words that are not scriptural.

That's probably for the best.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by coadie

Can you demonstrate how liberal changes have proven to be beneficial?

Most of those you call "liberals" have not made any "changes." It is the so-called "conservatives" who have made radical changes to the UPCI and the Apostolic Faith movement in general.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by coadie

"religious conservatism" is not a biblical expression.

I am a student of the bible and really don't waste time arguing regarding vocabulary words that are not scriptural.

It kinda puts you in the same predicament. You can't argue the other side of the coin.

Apparently the liberal dressed up churches are doing so to be seen by other people.

I do see a very strong trend that people use their culture to interpret scripture.

You, for example?