Can someone please tell me...?!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by josh

Bro Sam, regardless of who the affirmation statement wound up affecting, this statement is patently false. I'm not sure where you got your information, but I sat in the living room of the late primary author of the affirmation statement and discussed it at length with him.

Neither the PCI doctrine nor its adherents were even on his radar. Though he was an elder pastor at the time, he got in church later in life and started preaching about age 40. His concern was with the mindset highlighted by a particular Charisma article on how a younger generation of preachers was seeking to change the direction of the UPC. Like it or dislike it, that was the motive. Like it or dislike it, there was never an underhanded or hidden agenda in his efforts.

The fact that men left who were still advocates of the PCI reflects more on their character (which I respect) than on some attempt to oust them. To be honest, their very existance came as a surprise to some of the backers of that statement.

Son, I dont know who sold you these bag of goods or where you get off implying that Sam is a liar ... but for just a brief moment, my Kansasian hermano, take a seat.

1. Sam and Elder Epley are the resident historians up in here. From time to time Bishop 1 makes guest featured appearances.
It's my understanding that Sam's Apostolic library would put most big bawlers to shame. He's a walking encyclopedia.

2. Are you sure about Westberg not intending the AS to be about the New Birth ....

Let's disregard the multitude of witnesses that attest to this in Fudge's book.

Men, from this site, of integrity and experience have said quite the opposite.

A guy you may know ... called Coonskinner has stated that Westberg himself attested to the fact that the AS was about the New Birth ...

Here are some of his quotes:

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

PP,

The AS was engineered by Paul Price, L.E. Westburg, and David Gray.

I only met Brother Gray once, and didn't know him personally, but knew Brother Westburg very well, and still talk to Paul Price at least once a month, sometimes more.

The primary reason for the AS was the strengthening of the New Birth message, because there were men like Mickey Friend and his ilk that did not believe it.

I spoke with these men at length.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I was/am personally very well acquainted with two of the three framers of the AS resolution.

In their minds, it was about the New Birth, not standards.

Reformed Dave, whose father is an Apostolic icon, just the other day admitted that Price did quite a bit of, in his words, "arm-twisting".

.... and everyone, their mother, and he himself, knows that the honorable Bishop Kilgore mis-spoke on the floor at Salt Lake City ....

so either your facts are PATENTLY FALSE ... or these men are also LIARS.