Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainWashed
Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
If you entered heaven and discovered the family member(s) you thought were saved ended up being lost for eternity, wouldn't that thought bring you tears and sorrow?
According to scripture, there will be no sorrow, tears, or pain in heaven. I can only assume that you'll be unaware of who was lost for eternity, otherwise you would experience crying, sorrow, and pain in heaven, which scriptures state will no longer exist in heaven.
The only other method of not feeling pain and sorrow in heaven is becoming numb to the fact that your family members didn't make it. Don't we desire that our loved ones be saved while they're alive on Earth? Why would our mentality change to, "ahh they deserved what they got" after we enter heaven, after discovering they're lost for eternity?
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Whoa... slow down. Let's slow down and look at the text you presented. This text is typically regarded as a text relating to the eternal state. Now, let's read it slowly...
Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Question, if there are no tears in the new heavens and the new earth... what is God wiping away from everyone's eyes???
Here we see a tender and loving God wiping all the tears from the eyes of the redeemed, tears being shed in the new heavens and the new earth. Could these tears be tears of sorrow after having lost loved ones? Most certainly. What about tears regarding trials and tribulations on earth? Again, most certainly. But we see that God wipes them "all" away. For as long as it takes, God is there to comfort us. And eventually the reality and experience of there being no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain will be realized.
I remember hearing a teacher talk about Hell and the various interpretations and understandings regarding Hell. He brought up something very interesting. I'll present it here...
Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Notice, Hell (the lake of fire) is not in some cast away "dimension" far far from God's presence. It is in the very presence of the Lamb and the holy angels. It is before the very throne of Christ. While our God is a river of life, He is also a consuming fire. Might this speak symbolically of a spiritual reality experienced before the throne of God? What if for the redeemed God's presence is "Paradise"... but for those who have refused God's grace, mercy, and love God's presence is a "lake of fire"???
In this sense, Hell is a choice. A state of being, a frame of mind, a hateful disposition towards the Holy. A wailing and sorrowful disposition towards having wasted one's life by refusing God's love. A state of being wherein the flames of hatred, anger, shame, loss, and rebellion burn as hot as the soul's resistance to God's authority, holiness, and presence.
For those who hate God and have refused Him, Heaven would be Hell. Blessings and peace of His glorious presence fiery torment.
In light of this, our loved one's eternal state will be realized as being of their own choosing. The gates of Hell, as it were, being locked... from the inside.
This interpretation has always intrigued me. With this in mind, let's look at one more passage...
Luke 16:19-26
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Notice that in this parable these two souls were near one another during their earthly lives, so close Lazarus the beggar laid at the rich man's gate, desiring for just the crumbs and left overs of the rich man's table. And notice that even in eternity, they are close enough that the rich man can see Lazarus experiencing the blessing and joys of being with Abraham in Paradise, while now he himself is in torments. They are so close in fact, the rich man can communicate with Abraham. And while Abraham speaks of a "great gulf" that is fixed between the two, it is clearly not so great that they cannot see and communicate freely. Nor so great that the rich man couldn't imagine Lazarus crossing over and soothing his tongue with a drop of water.
What if they are essentially... in the same place?
But one is experiencing it as Paradise, and the other is experiencing Hell?
What if the "great gulf" that is fixed between them isn't a literal canyonlike gulf, but rather it is a symbolic depiction or metaphor to describe the difference in their disposition? A chasm of mind and heart, not a physical chasm. And so, those who are experiencing Paradise cannot cross over into that lost state of being, nor those in Hell cross over into that saved state of being. And it's "fixed". Their minds are fixed. They are forever in the dispositions they have chosen. Close enough to talk and even perhaps touch... but millions of miles apart in their experience.
Of course, the parable ends as follows...
Luke 16:27-31
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Here we see the disposition of the lost. The rich man pleads to have Lazarus be risen from the dead and sent to the rich man's father's house to speak to his five brothers in the hopes that their seeing a man raised from the dead warning them of Hell they would repent. But Abraham breaks it down...
"If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
The "great gulf" of separation from Paradise is already fixed in these five brothers. They refuse Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rise from the dead.
So, finding those we love who have been lost may not be all that difficult. However, their ever experiencing our blessedness is impossible. And it is all their own choosing.
I don't know. But these are a few thoughts I had on it.
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