Why Sunday

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Did Paul say Sabbath keepers are weak in the faith?

Emphatically NO.

Yes, they most certainly are. I will explain how. Let me give a hint by saying it is such infatuation with natural things like a day and physical rest. It betrays the outward emphasis as though it's more about how we live in this world.

Weak in the faith comes from here:

Romans 4:18-22 KJV

Abraham was not weak in faith, meaning he fully accepted what God said and acted on it. He obeyed, in fact.

When it said he was not weak in faith, it meant that he believed what was written and stood strong on that belief until it affected his actual life in this world. Like you said, James also noted that faith without works is dead.

Romans 14:1-2 KJV
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. [2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The vegetarian is weak in the faith because he is worried about eating something that will defile him. Whether this applies to rabbinical fasting days or to abstaining from animal products produced by gentiles (rabbinically prohibited, by the way, not prohibited by God) or meats offered in sacrifice to idols (or a surefire way to avoid doing such a thing by just going vegetarian), the end result is the same. The weak brother believes if he does these things it will be displeasing to God and the community of faith.

Is it weak in the faith for a Christian to abstain FROM SIN? Hardly.

This has nothing to do with sin. It has to do with converted Jews who held onto elements of the Law as if Christ demanded them to do so, when in reality He did not. They're not totally established in the faith. Colossians 1 and 2 speaks of being made grounded in Christ, before we get into the issue of being judged about sabbaths, etc, which is very noteworthy. Paul wanted to present everybody perfect or complete in Christ. And Col 2 tells us that we are complete in Christ and must not allow anyone to remove us using elements/rudiments of the world, which as I explained were Old Covenant carnal ordinances that were only imposed for a time seeing as they served as shadows. The handwriting of ordinances against us were tenets of ceremonial law.

Law of Moses contained ceremonial Law that was a handwriting of ordinances in and of itself. The Law actually made a statement about a writing that was related to the concept of blotting out.

Numbers 5:23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:

The curses were written in a book and blotted out with the bitter water in a rite in reference to a case of alleged adultery. If the woman was innocent, the curses were blotted out. But if her thigh rotted and belly swelled, she was guilty. This is where get the concept of blotting out handwriting of ordinances.

If people neglected to keep these ceremonies, they were condemned. Law was against us because, as Paul said, sin in our flesh would use a good thing like the Law to kill us! Law was not against us as though it was evil. It was against us because sin is evil, and sin forced us to do wrong whenever we tried to keep the Law in order to do good.

We see the first two verses showing weakness of faith. One weak in faith eateth herbs, fearful, as you say, about particular meats forbidden in Mosaic Law. Our relationship with God is not affected by what we eat. Even meats offered to idols are only FOOD, in reality, and the false gods don't exist, anyway.

So, eating herbs was being fearful of eating something among Gentiles LIKE PORK, etc. Pork was forbidden by Mosaic Law. That's why Paul said the kingdom is not about rules of meats and drinks, but far larger things like righteousness, peace and joy in the Spirit. It;'s not about eating or not eating PORK., etc.

Romans 14:5 KJV
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Notice the pattern. One eats all things, and the other who is weak is said to only eat herbs. The Verse shows all days are alike whereas the weak in faith is distinguished in the similar pattern of saying some days are esteemed above other days as better. Days and food are spoke of similarly as all are okay as opposed to some are better spiritually in some manner.

Notice, there is no mention of weakness in this passage.

It's implied and presented as granted quite emphatically by the pattern set forth in the issue of food. Weak people restrict their diet of food before God, and stronger ones eat all things. Naturally, the implication is a given to know that weak people esteem one day about another and the stronger do not. This sense is understood and to be carried through the whole chapter, as the next chapter summarizes it like this:

Romans 15:1.. We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

The strong are contrasted with the weak all through chapter 14 and its various examples of contrast, and chapter 15:1 shows that.

If one were to say well it's parallel to the food one so there is still weakness being discussed? Well, following the parallel from earlier in the chapter, the SECOND one mentioned is weak. In this verse it would be the guy who esteems every day alike who is weak in the faith!

The pattern is not in which order something is mentioned (!!), but which holds a restriction compared to who holds no restrictions at all.

But nevermind, because this isn't about the Sabbath anyway. It is about "doubtful disputations" and there is no doubt about the sanctification of the seventh day as the Sabbath.

No. It is about food restrictions and days being esteemed over others. That includes sabbath, hands-down. In fact, sabbath day is the single most common day repeated every week, for goodness' sake, that immediately comes to mind as soon as Paul mentioned esteeming days!

It is about personal estimation of the value of certain days, not about God's estimation of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is never even mentioned in the chapter.

When something is obvious, it does not need mention, like you describe. Sabbath is just ONE day that people esteem above others, and those days that are similar in estimation include many other similar holy ones.

The chapter is about accepting brethren despite their weakness, BROTHER..

Romans 14:21 KJV
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Weakness is equated with stumbling and offending. Biblically, stumbling and offending have to do with sinning (transgressing God's commandments, including Sabbath breaking). So making your brother weak is not done by encouraging OBEDIENCE TO GOD, but by encouraging DISOBEDIENCE.

It's not disobedience if God says the new covenant is bot about natural seventh days but a spiritual one of rest.

1 Corinthians 8:4-7 KJV
As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. [5] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. [7] Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

Faith is not here said to be weak, but the conscience.

The two are related, obviously.

Those whose conscience is weak are those who do not know that idols are nothing and powerless. Kind of like today people think a Buddha statue has some occultic power in itself. Truth is it is nothing, nothing but a memorial to foolishness, if anything. So some were refusing to eat gentile food because butchers and hosts were sanctifying the animal from which it came to pagan gods, and these believers wanted nothing at all to do with idolatry.

Agreed.

1 Corinthians 8:8-13 KJV
But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. [9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. [10] For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; [11] And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? [12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. [13] Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Again, we are not to encourage a brother to eat such meat IF that brother believes it is wrong because of the idol connection. But notice:

1 Corinthians 10:18-31 KJV

If it is made known that food is offered to idols, we are not to partake because of the idolatry connection. Partaking becomes an act of intentional worship in such a case. So we abstain in such situations.

So that's about it in regard to being weak in the faith. Nothing in scripture suggests Sabbath keeping is a weakness of faith.

I disagree completely, again because you are patently esteeming sabbath day to be better than other days and are so concerned over it.

So much concern over a natural day of the week and natural rest, when the bigger things of the kingdom are righteousness, peace and joy. Weak teachings put much focus on the natural while strong teachings focus on larger more important things. For that reason, I spend time pushing out toward the spiritual and away from the natural focus of sabbath keeping, for I want to be strong in that manner Paul described.

The amount of time spent pointing to a natural day is in itself weakness.