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Old 09-02-2024, 01:08 PM
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votivesoul votivesoul is offline
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Re: Leadership Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Elder Esaias

You've created posts on leadership structure in the past.
Please provide that information again, when you have a minute, if you don't mind.
How reliable is Ignatius of Antioch for providing guidance on Church Structure and sacraments.

This may end up on Facebook also
For those who may be interested in another take:

Matthew 23:10 (NASB),

Quote:
10 And do not be called leaders; for only One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
Why did the translators of the NASB decide to use the words "leaders" and "Leader" when most translations use the words "teachers" and "Teacher", or, in the case of the KJV, "masters" and "Master"?

Here is the Greek text:

μηδὲ κληθῆτε καθηγηταί ὅτι καθηγητὴς ὑμῶν ἐστιν εἷς ὁ Χριστός

See: https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-10.htm

The key words of the text are καθηγηταί (kathēgētai) and καθηγητὴς (kathēgētēs).

Both of these words derive from καθηγητής (kathégétés), which is a compound from κατά (kata) and ἡγέομαι (hégeomai).

κατά (kata) is both a preposition and a prefix in Koine Greek. It typically means "down", as from a higher to lower place, and as such, it can mean something like "top to bottom", or all throughout.

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2596.htm

ἡγέομαι (hégeomai) means "to lead", or to go before and lead the way. To be the chief, or scout, who takes point. It denotes the role an official in government plays in leading the citizenry, or of having command authority as one whose role and purpose carries weight, especially in terms of voting.

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2233.htm

So, it would seem that Jesus is teaching His students, and by extension, us, that no one but Christ gets to take point, have command authority, or gets to establish a "top-down" government where He is the Leader or Chief, and everyone else are followers, i.e. the led.

This notion turns on its head the entire idea of "Leadership" in the church. Many have and do read from the KJV, and so, esteem Paul's exhortation to the Corinthians, to "follow me as I follow Christ" (See: 1 Corinthians 11:1).

This adage has been taken up by many pastors and elders in the church to mean something like, "I/We am/are the leader/s. We follow Christ. And as He leads us, you should then follow wherever we go".

But this is problematic for several reasons:

1.) Paul wrote this as an Apostle, not as a pastor or elder
2.) Paul wrote this as an Apostle to a congregation he personally founded through his own evangelistic endeavors
3.) The Greek term translated in the KJV as "follow" is better translated as "imitate".

1 Corinthians 11:1 (ESV),

Quote:
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
Imitators: mιμηταί (mimētai), from μιμητής (mimétés):

Quote:
(the root of the English term, mimic, "one who imitates, emulates") – properly, the positive imitation that arises by admiring the pattern set by someone worthy of emulation, i.e. a mentor setting a proper example.
See:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/11-1.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/3402.htm

So, the text isn't about "following" in the sense of one leads and everyone else gets on the path. It's about emulating Paul's example as he attempts to emulate Christ's example. Since Christ spent time in prayer, Paul spent time in prayer, so the Corinthians should spend time in prayer, so believers everywhere should spend time in prayer. Christ fasted, so Paul fasted, and etc. Christ proclaimed the Good News, so Paul did likewise, and etc. all the way to today.

It's not, "I'm the pastor of this church and what I say goes", or some other derivative meaning essentially the same thing, even if the congregation has Biblical eldership and not just a Monarchial Bishop.

Furthermore, to the same church, Paul wrote to them and told them the following regarding him and Silvanus and Timotheus:

2 Corinthians 1:24 (ESV),

Quote:
24 Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, for you stand firm in your faith.
The KJV reads "dominion" in place of "lord", but the meaning is the same, stemming from κυριεύω (kurieuó), meaning:

Quote:
properly, to exercise rights over one's own property as an owner with full dominion (lordship) over this jurisdiction.
See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2961.htm

Paul, an Apostle of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, and Silvanus and Timotheus, exercised no rights over anyone's faith as if having full dominion over such a jurisdiction.

Yes, Paul relayed the Word of the Lord to the churches he founded, and sometimes he even issued commands to them, but in the final analysis, what anyone believed or held on to be true, Paul and his team did not try to control or own.

To be continued...
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Last edited by votivesoul; 09-02-2024 at 01:25 PM.
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