Praxeas & Company (Thief Saved?/Baptism Essential)

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If the thief was saved WITHOUT Jesus then why would anyone need Jesus. IF anyone could have been saved without Jesus before He died then what is the point? The Thief and others were saved and yet not baptized. If they can be saved prior to Jesus coming by some other means then we don't need Jesus.

Can you please quote my comment about the thief being saved without Jesus? Why was the beggar carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom? (Luke 16:22-24) What sent the rich man to a tormenting hell? Who SAVED the beggar from a tormenting hell, Jesus, Buddha, or the Power Rangers?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

God preached the gospel to Abraham
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."

What gospel did God preach, "in you all nations shall be blessed?" Is that the gospel you speak about?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Nothing said about a different kind of faith. Nobody was saved under the law BY doing the works of the law.

Praxeas, let me explain again. Romans 10:9 reads we MUST believe God raised Jesus from the dead. This is a REQUIREMENT. This belief wasn't required of the thief, reason being Jesus hadn't died yet, much less raised from death. It's clearly evident the thief was under the old dispensation, which didn't require water baptism.


What did the sacrificial sin offerings in the Old Testament signify? What did those sacrifices accomplish?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You will note the verse you quoted does not mention baptism but believing. Had the thief NOT died he would have had to be baptized in obedience to the word. .

Your honor, I object to that comment, due to pure speculation! Praxeas, the judge will find you contemp for speculation.

The fact is this thief could have been baptized under the baptism of John (that point is still mute) and been a backslider. Your comment about the thief being baptized if he hadn't died is pure speculation.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That does not prove anyone can be saved and not be baptized. Baptism is a biblical command.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

As I said before, everyone needs to be baptized, but there are exceptions.

You see that? You just contradicted yourself with both comments above! You said "baptism is a biblical command" and "everyone NEEDS to be baptized," but there's exceptions?

If baptism is biblical as you stated above, then not obeying this command is violating God's own command! Would God violate His own law Praxeas?


Let me share a few scriptures with you:

"if you love me, keep my commandments," John 14:15, 21.


"For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments, and His
commandments are not grievous," I John 5:3.

"And this is love, that we walk after His commandments," 2 John 6.


We must keep God's commandments if we love him, which includes baptism as you plainly stated, thanks!

By the way, there was not exceptions with the thief. Jesus forgave the thief before He died. The thief was under the old dispensation which didn't require baptism, but blood atonement.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Once again I never said baptism is not essential for salvation. Second, how was the thief saved? Who saved him and why?.

God required animal sacrifices that man could receive forgiveness for their sins (Leviticus 4:35; 5:10). Jesus, our High Priest and Lamb, after forgiving the thief, transferred his sins, and the sins of mankind upon himself. Then Jesus was crucified (e.g., sacrificed) on a cross.

Jesus was the final OLD TESTAMENT sin sacrifice. The thief was saved under this action. Also, notice the thief acknowledge Jesus as God when he told Jesus, "remember me......in thy kingdom." He confirmed Jesus was a king and had a kingdom. Beautiful, ehh?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is the HOLY Spirit. These gentiles did not have their sins forgiven and acts 2:38 if we are going to be literalists and absolutists then we must repent and be baptized before being filled with the Spirit. But God clearly chose fit to make an exception to that.us.

These gentiles did receive the Holy Ghost, but, they still obeyed the 3 step process. Where is your argument here? They obeyed the 3 step process!
I challenge you to show me different!

Originally Posted by Praxeas

When you get baptized for forgiveness of sins you might still need to have your sins forgiven after that. Baptism is a one time thing. But it's the continued presence of the Spirit after that saves us right?.

Aren't we a new creature after baptism? Are will still under condemnation after baptism? Aren't we dead to the flesh and alive in the spirit?

Have you studied these scriptures and their significance to believers?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have to ask what about those that receive the Spirit and speak in tongues in the Trinitarian churches? Did they receive the Holy Spirit or not? What did they receive? And yet all this time so many of them are still sin stained...their souls presumably in darkness even though the Spirit of the Father of Lights is inside them? Or what is it? What do they have?

Praxeas, remember the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out devils by Beelzebub the prince of the devils? Jesus responded a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. It's evident one must posses the spirit of God to cast out demons. What happens when you try casting out demons without the spirit of God? Remember the seven sons of Sceva?


Now that I've laid the foundation, I'll explain.

Matt 7 reads

22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Now, these people that cast out devils or performed miracles were Holy Ghost filled, I proved it above. Now I ask you the same question you asked me, isn't the Spirit of the Father of Lights is inside them, leading them into truth? How can God tell Holy Ghost filled folks He never knew them?

Trinitarians may possess the Holy Ghost and still be workers of iniquity! Why, because their doctrine is false! When one violates the word of God, they're a worker on iniquity (see the Greek). The reason God grants their miracles is because He's faithful to His word.

So yes, they have the Holy Ghost. Many are called, few are chosen! Works always follows faith!