Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Yes, but as I said, if this points to the incarnation and God had never spoken by the Son in previous times, the Son is incarnational (Oneness) as opposed to Trinitarians who believe the Son is not incarnational. So what is left? As I said, the Logos.
God spoke all things into existence (see Gen 1)
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
And He created By Himself
Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
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What Prax has shared here is IMO that only thing that should be spoken about "How all things were made". All things were created by the Word of God.
The Word of God went forth and begat/conceived (See Falla's 'non-song' portion of her last post) a child within the womb of Mary, resulting in the Word of God becoming flesh, a Son being begotten. Trinitarian teachers and translators seem to want to say the Son made all things; because the Son is God's word become flesh they feel empowered to present text in a fashion to support this assertion/confidence.
We know it is God's own word which has the potency to create. This understanding is revealed with such plainness as we read in Genesis concerning how God spoke (God said)....and there was.
......
The first Chapter of Colossians does introduce a foggy-ness with an English translation that forms a sentence that extends from verse 9, continuing through verse 17 that contains:
1 comma --1 semi colon AND --5 COLONs! Wow.
I mention this because the flow of the witness requires the reader to understand who the pronoun HIM is pointing back to.
v.9
For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
v.10
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
v.11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
v.12
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
v.13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
v.14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
v.15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
v.16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
v.17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
The rarely seen use of so many colons within a single sentence (on the part of an English translators efforts) seems to reveal a struggle to understand the thread of what we would call a run-on sentence. The construction of Paul's writing are very often challenging to assign proper nouns to the use of pronouns.
I do not offer this post as a definitive grammatical anything.
But to reconcile the larger scriptural witness concerning the plain fact that God has created everything by sending forth his own word, I am prepared to consider that verse 14-15 are a parenthetical expansion provided in service to the prepositional phrase we read that ends verse 13 "
of his dear Son".
Paul's elongated thread/sentence returns us to verse 16 and 17 for completion.
just some thoughts I wanted to share in this thread.
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