A Crumbling UPC 'Fesses Up, AI is not working

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by DAII

His example of a cultural thing being the live-in boyfriend was a poor choice ... and it's going to sting him.

I think it will sting him too.

However, I don't think a one size fits all. Many couples that live together have been together for many years. Some are divorcees that have children. To advocate that they dissolve their relationship immediately would be problematic and traumatic for all involved. I'd advocate just preaching the Word. God's GRACE is sufficient to keep them saved. Eventually the Word will do the work and convict them to marry.

I don't believe God demands perfection. I do believe that grace is provided for the sinner. It's the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the sinful and undeserving. Their salvation isn't based on performance...but position... and if saved... their position is "in Christ".

Should they serve in some form of ministry? I wouldn't recomend it until they were married.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it will sting him too.

However, I don't think a one size fits all. Many couples that live together have been together for many years. Some are divorcees that have children. To advocate that they dissolve their relationship immediately would be problematic and traumatic for all involved. I'd advocate just preaching the Word. God's GRACE is sufficient to keep them saved. Eventually the Word will do the work and convict them to marry. I don't believe God demands perfection. I do believe that grace is provided for the sinner. It's the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the sinful and undeserving. Their salvation isn't based on performance...but position... and if saved... their position is "in Christ".

Should they serve in some form of ministry? I wouldn't recomend it until they were married.

I was always taught that this would lead the women to wear dresses and not cut their hair too.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

I was always taught that this would lead the women to wear dresses and not cut their hair too.

I think that with most couples, after becoming more rooted in a given church the desire for marriage will increase, especially in the heart of the lady involved. I've seen it dozens of times. A couple living together comes to church and after several months... she's talking more and more about marriage. At this point the couples I've seen will either move to marry or the pressures of being unmarried (their own choice) will wear on them. I've seen couples break up because she wants marriage and it becomes evident that he doesn't. I've also seen couples eventually leave together. At any rate... God was allowed to convict and deal with the couple.

Of course, I'm for common law marriage. I think that if a couple lives together for a given period, identifies themselves as married, and files taxes together... the law should legally recognize them. I don't think the government should have such an extensive reach of control over personal relationships.

[Jermyn Davidson]

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!

I believe she's already fallen. We're just seeing the decaying body.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe she's already fallen. We're just seeing the decaying body.

eh eh eh

Never mind the fact that many still find salvation and live overcoming lives for His Names sake within the UP Churches huh?

Never mind the fact that other American churches have declined at an alarming rate, huh?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

eh eh eh

Never mind the fact that many still find salvation and live overcoming lives for His Names sake within the UP Churches huh?

Never mind the fact that other American churches have declined at an alarming rate, huh?

We're only talking about the UPCI. The UPCI has many unbiblical positions that are mandated as commandments. This alone is a stench in God's nostrils. Not to mention the cultic behavior of it's leaders and the micromanaging of her churches.

Personally, I think the UPCI is a bonafide cult.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!

Right. These enticing thread titles are created by those who... well, those who have their own motives (good or bad).

I would see the interview at most, as an acknowledgement that the AI "campaign" is not intended to be shoved onto the unsuspecting new converts, and that wisdom must be used to avoid unintended negative consequences.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!

It's hurtin' ... this video is more evidence of it despite the "positive" momentum spin ...

The national conference staying in St. Louis for the foreseeable future is proof positive that these are very lean days.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it will sting him too.

However, I don't think a one size fits all. Many couples that live together have been together for many years. Some are divorcees that have children. To advocate that they dissolve their relationship immediately would be problematic and traumatic for all involved. I'd advocate just preaching the Word. God's GRACE is sufficient to keep them saved. Eventually the Word will do the work and convict them to marry.

Most pastors would counsel an immediate marriage in such a case; not dissolution of the relationship, unless the relationship itself was already adulterous or immoral in some other way. Preaching the Word would certainly include a recommendation against continued fornication, and relaying God's commandments in that regard sooner rather than later. I wouldn't withhold the truth about sinful behavior to new converts, and neither would most pastors.

More to the point, when pastors withhold information or delay certain teachings, it reveals their true feelings about the importance of those teachings.