Prodigal Son Distorted by FB Pastor

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think what Socialite was pointing out was that the Prodigal rehearsed a speech but received his father's forgiveness and compassion before he ever spoke it. The father was watching for a return, and his love and compassion didn't have to be earned. Apparently the Prodigal thought he would have to make some concessions in order to be received back into the house.

Luke 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luke 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luke 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

Then we read that the Prodigal gave his prepared speech, but the father practically brushed it off and started planning a party.

MB, thank you, that's what I was saying. Even then, it was a tad speculative on my part, but it's how I see the story unfolding. And it's me that I see in that story. But I think of the audience Jesus had -- sinners and Pharisees. I can't help but think that each of them played a part in the story... and through their characters, Jesus was again proclaiming the Kingdom of God, and describing what it's like.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

MB, thank you, that's what I was saying. Even then, it was a tad speculative on my part, but it's how I see the story unfolding. And it's me that I see in that story. But I think of the audience Jesus had -- sinners and Pharisees. I can't help but think that each of them played a part in the story... and through their characters, Jesus was again proclaiming the Kingdom of God, and describing what it's like.

I think "scheming" is a stretch for the passage. It implies a very, perverse and negative connotation, IMO. Anyway, that is how I view the term.

Yes, he rehearsed what he was going to say, but you give the impression by saying, "I actually believe the younger son was scheming when he came back, knowing he could get "better stuff" and this is the climax of the Story.", as though he had no remorse for what he had done and had plans to waltz back into the good graces of his home because, after all, it's better than a pig pen.

I see him preparing a speech whilst wrestling with the issue of how he would obtain the "trust" he felt he had lost between himself and his father. He had to, somehow, find a way to prove to his father that he was truly mindful of what he had done - fully realized it and wanted to never go that route again.

His father did receive him before his "speech", but he still felt compelled to show his remorse. His father must know it! That doesn't seem like "scheming" as I took your post.

I rather view it as trying to obtain "trust" that was lost. How did his father know he wouldn't do it again?

By him saying, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son", he is pointing out that he is fully aware that he has, first of all, sinned against God and broken commandment/covenant/rules [] - Exodus 20:12 "Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."

And by this, he allows that he is not worthy to be called his son. He understands that what he has done can only be undone IF his father truly and, implicitly, understands he meant what he said from his heart.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Yes, he rehearsed what he was going to say, but you give the impression by saying, "I actually believe the younger son was scheming when he came back, knowing he could get "better stuff" and this is the climax of the Story.", as though he had no remorse for what he had done and had plans to waltz back into the good graces of his home because, after all, it's better than a pig pen.

compared with Rob's words:

Why did he come home?
He decided that he could handle living with the Father's rules as long as he could enjoy Daddy's fried chicken.

And I also added that I was speculating into the story. But based on his rehearsal, it all focused on getting back into a place of security -- it wasn't consumed with affection to his father. His line about "I've sinned against you" was his olive branch.

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by Socialite

compared with Rob's words:





And I also added that I was speculating into the story. But based on his rehearsal, it all focused on getting back into a place of security -- it wasn't consumed with affection to his father. His line about "I've sinned against you" was his olive branch.

From what you said about baptism, I have to wonder if your entire theology is speculative.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

compared with Rob's words:

And I also added that I was speculating into the story. But based on his rehearsal, it all focused on getting back into a place of security -- it wasn't consumed with affection to his father. His line about "I've sinned against you" was his olive branch.

No, it wasn't just an olive branch. When he said that he "sinned against heaven", he knew he had violated the law of God. It's like, a rule, ya know.

He had to get that right before he could think of changing to be a better son.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

No, it wasn't just an olive branch. When he said that he "sinned against heaven", he knew he had violated the law of God. It's like, a rule, ya know.

He had to get that right before he could think of changing to be a better son.

He was so hungry he would have eaten the corncobs in the pig slop, but no one would give him any.

17-20"That brought him to his senses. He said, 'All those farmhands working for my father sit down to three meals a day, and here I am starving to death. I'm going back to my father. I'll say to him, Father, I've sinned against God, I've sinned before you; I don't deserve to be called your son. Take me on as a hired hand.' He got right up and went home to his father

I speculate scheming, you speculate he was having a Damascus road experience leading up to the Father. We both speculate here I tend to believe my speculation has more support from the Text -- doesn't make it more true, but it's the reason why I lean that way. The point here wasn't the son's getting it right. In the story the Son violently sins against his father (cursing him and demanding inheritance prematurely was a horrible and shameful act). He finds himself at a pig farm (get the contrast?). To better the contrast, the Father shames HIMSELF, and loves on the Son, kisses his neck, runs to him --- and throws a party. This is about a Prodigal God, not a Prodigal Son.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I speculate scheming, you speculate he was having a Damascus road experience leading up to the Father. We both speculate here I tend to believe my speculation has more support from the Text -- doesn't make it more true, but it's the reason why I lean that way. The point here wasn't the son's getting it right. In the story the Son violently sins against his father (cursing him and demanding inheritance prematurely was a horrible and shameful act). He finds himself at a pig farm (get the contrast?). To better the contrast, the Father shames HIMSELF, and loves on the Son, kisses his neck, runs to him --- and throws a party. This is about a Prodigal God, not a Prodigal Son.

Not so much a Damascus road experience, but he knew enough to know he was wrong. It didn't have to be a Damascus road to "come to himself".

He cursed his father? Where does it imply that he did that? How is there "shame" in love?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Not so much a Damascus road experience, but he knew enough to know he was wrong. It didn't have to be a Damascus road to "come to himself".

He cursed his father? Where does it imply that he did that? How is there "shame" in love?

That's just not in the story, PO.

I'll get back to you on the cursing stuff It's fun to unpack these things from their historical context. Makes more sense the reason the Pharisees were upset by his story time that day.

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

No, it wasn't just an olive branch. When he said that he "sinned against heaven", he knew he had violated the law of God. It's like, a rule, ya know.

He had to get that right before he could think of changing to be a better son.

Exctly, Pressing On! The point that Brother McKee brought out is a brilliant one and it is true, the younger son was rebelling against the traditions of his father, seeking to do his own thing. How else could this ever possibly be explained? The result of his rebellion was heartache and failure.

I don't know if Brother McKee brought this out, but God in His grace took that boy to the bottom. Thank God that He loves us enough to hurt us, to humble us, to bring us to hte place of filth and emptiness that we have no choice by to return to Him!

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

Exctly, Pressing On! The point that Brother McKee brought out is a brilliant one and it is true, the younger son was rebelling against the traditions of his father, seeking to do his own thing. How else could this ever possibly be explained? The result of his rebellion was heartache and failure.

I don't know if Brother McKee brought this out, but God in His grace took that boy to the bottom. Thank God that He loves us enough to hurt us, to humble us, to bring us to hte place of filth and emptiness that we have no choice by to return to Him!

Where is that in the story?

And after knowing more about the audience, their reaction, etc... I'm not sure why that would even be part of the story. It's like taking a metaphor too long. This isn't a true story, it's a parable. And in this story is you and I.

The story doesn't linger on the why, or even much about his leaving. We get this:

'Father, I want right now what's coming to me.'

12-16"So the father divided the property between them. It wasn't long before the younger son packed his bags and left for a distant country.

I'm not denying that, if we see ourselves in this story, by the very implication, living lives our ways means not His way. And even, in rebellion to his commandments. But this isn't a character, role or feature of the story. When you bring something into a still shot, you lose focus of the picture that was intended. Keep the focus and meaning of this story on the right things.