Prodigal Son Distorted by FB Pastor

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Rehearsed and not heartfelt? He didn't have to say ANYTHING after his father fell on his neck, but he did. IMO, he wanted to make sure his father knew that he understood the severity of what he had done.

He didn't know anything? Who told him he had "sinned against heaven"? One of the pigs in the pig pen? "Hey, dude, I was reading your Bible and...." Okay, just kidding, but it would make a great movie! Okay, cartoon. LOL!

You are making him out to be a con-man. He was just a lost boy that needed his daddy.



"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Romans 9:15

Somewhere, in the grand scheme of things, it must begin at our heart and God takes it from there. Grace is extended according to our obedience.

"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" Romans 1:5

The context of his rehearsal was all in the same breath of him figuring out what he would. "I will tell him I've sinned against heaven (common Jewish response for repentance) and then work for a hired servant and get out of this pig farm." Nothing in there signifying a work of repentance in the son. No doubt, like any human, he felt bad. But mostly, he was coming back home because he spent all his money. Rob seems to think because he considered "the rules aren't so bad" (which you disagree) -- I lean more toward him genuinely wanting the Father's acceptance, but going about it in a way that most of us do. In spite of it, he was shown Grace --- even before his rehearsed story.

Grace is extended BEFORE our obedience. Let's get the Gospel the right way, PO.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The context of his rehearsal was all in the same breath of him figuring out what he would. "I will tell him I've sinned against heaven (common Jewish response for repentance) and then work for a hired servant and get out of this pig farm." Nothing in there signifying a work of repentance in the son. No doubt, like any human, he felt bad. But mostly, he was coming back home because he spent all his money. Rob seems to think because he considered "the rules aren't so bad" (which you disagree) -- I lean more toward him genuinely wanting the Father's acceptance, but going about it in a way that most of us do. In spite of it, he was shown Grace --- even before his rehearsed story.

You insist on a rehearsal "speech" and I just see that he "came to himself" and wanted to go home.

Grace is extended BEFORE our obedience. Let's get the Gospel the right way, PO.

That isn't what Romans 1:5 says. "...received grace and apostleship, for obedience .." I suppose we could quibble over "eis", but I believe it to mean expressing the purpose - "in order to" and not "because of".

I am not sure I disagree with Rob. If he considered going home because it was a better place for him, I'm not sure that didn't include the "rules of house". We have "rules" in our house.

When my daughter was 16 and acting out, I called her and said, "You have a choice. You can live here and honor this home and God or you can come and get all of your belongings." We have rules and they will be honored.

I don't see the prodigal son living in different environment and if he walked away because of foolish youth, he also walked away from obedience. That, again, entails some rules were broken.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You insist on a rehearsal "speech" and I just see that he "came to himself" and wanted to go home.

I don't insist, but it does jive better with what is included in the story to me.


That isn't what Romans 1:5 says. "...received grace and apostleship, for obedience .." I suppose we could quibble over "eis", but I believe it to mean expressing the purpose - "in order to" and not "because of".

Let's just read all of Romans while we're at it. Including Chapters 4 & 5. Grace doesn't come BECAUSE we are obedient, it comes before. You didn't choose God, He chose you!

I am not sure I disagree with Rob. If he considered going home because it was a better place for him, I'm not sure that didn't include the "rules of house". We have "rules" in our house.

So now you aren't disagreeing with Rob? When you thought it was my position, you were glad to. You guys are saying "I'm sure" while projecting into the story. Read Maxi's post on the Wizard of Oz. Would love to hear what you think.

When my daughter was 16 and acting out, I called her and said, "You have a choice. You can live here and honor this home and God or you can come and get all of your belongings." We have rules and they will be honored.

God has rules too. I get that. But this isn't what the story is about -- it's exactly the opposite emphasis and focus. Pharisees wished that's what it was about.

I don't see the prodigal son living in different environment and if he walked away because of foolish youth, he also walked away from obedience. That, again, entails some rules were broken.

*scratching my head a little, PO*

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

*scratching my head a little, PO*

I don't believe I ever said I disagreed with Rob. He also stated that there were more angles to the story. OA wrote an excellent article focusing on the elder son. Rob pointed out, his view, concerning the prodigal son.

Romans 1:5 starts out by saying that we have received BOTH grace and apostleship because of our obedience. Why do you want to skip over that portion of scripture. Many things we obtain are contingent upon our thoughts, actions and always our obedience. Cornelius' household, after receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost were "commanded" to be baptized. I assume the obeyed that command.

Part of the story is about rules. Commandment for a better word, since rules seem to have a scratching chalkboard sound. LOL! The reason why is because the prodigal son confessed that he sinned against heaven. He would have to know the laws of God to know he had done that very thing.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't believe I ever said I disagreed with Rob. He

You bolded my quote here:

I actually believe the younger son was scheming when he came back, knowing he could get "better stuff" and this is the climax of the Story.

and responded with:

I don't believe that.

later...

Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Yes, he rehearsed what he was going to say, but you give the impression by saying, "I actually believe the younger son was scheming when he came back, knowing he could get "better stuff" and this is the climax of the Story.", as though he had no remorse for what he had done and had plans to waltz back into the good graces of his home because, after all, it's better than a pig pen.

compared with Rob's words:
pared with Rob's words:

Quote:Why did he come home?
Why did he come home?
He decided that he could handle living with the Father's rules as long as he could enjoy Daddy's fried chicken.

Having trouble keeping up with you this time.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

compared with Rob's words:
pared with Rob's words:

Having trouble keeping up with you this time.

Okay, I see what you were referring to. I didn't read the whole thread, so I missed this. So, no, I don't agree with Rob on that point.

I want to view the son as "coming to himself" and realizing that what he had done was against God and his father. I want to view that as him wanting to make things right. I want the story to reflect deep love. Did I say that's what I want.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Okay, I see what you were referring to. I didn't read the whole thread, so I missed this. So, no, I don't agree with Rob on that point.

I want to view the son as "coming to himself" and realizing that what he had done was against God and his father. I want to view that as him wanting to make things right. I want the story to reflect deep love. Did I say that's what I want.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't believe I ever said I disagreed with Rob. He also stated that there were more angles to the story. OA wrote an excellent article focusing on the elder son. Rob pointed out, his view, concerning the prodigal son.

Romans 1:5 starts out by saying that we have received BOTH grace and apostleship because of our obedience. Why do you want to skip over that portion of scripture. Many things we obtain are contingent upon our thoughts, actions and always our obedience. Cornelius' household, after receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost were "commanded" to be baptized. I assume the obeyed that command.

Part of the story is about rules. Commandment for a better word, since rules seem to have a scratching chalkboard sound. LOL! The reason why is because the prodigal son confessed that he sinned against heaven. He would have to know the laws of God to know he had done that very thing.

Really curious about your ideas concerning interpretation. Read Maxi's posts and let me know. Who determines meaning?


Romans 1:5

Through Christ, God has given us the privilege[c] and authority as apostles to tell Gentiles everywhere what God has done for them, so that they will believe and obey him, bringing glory to his name.

Not sure what point you are drawing out, PO.

God chose you -- you didn't choose Him.

The younger son was a sinner. That's what we get from the story. Rules, as was stated in Rob's post, is not a central, or even present component in the story. One has to project them into the story. It seems suspicious that we want to project that into the story to begin with. For what purpose?

This particular story has a point, purpose and message. Luke seems to be in on this as he's recording it. The focus is not rules -- it's the fact that he is a sinner in extravagant ways, while the father is loving in even more extravagant and yes, shameful, ways. Meanwhile, the elder brother, the one stuck in rules mode, earning it, etc is burning with hatred over this.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Really curious about your ideas concerning interpretation. Read Maxi's posts and let me know. Who determines meaning?

Not sure what point you are drawing out, PO.

What in the world translation is that?

God chose you -- you didn't choose Him.

Certainly, for every man is drawn by His Spirit, but I don't have to receive Him. I would need to be obedient to receive Him.

The younger son was a sinner. That's what we get from the story. Rules, as was stated in Rob's post, is not a central, or even present component in the story. One has to project them into the story. It seems suspicious that we want to project that into the story to begin with. For what purpose?

I see why you are suspicious, but doesn't rebellion generally involve the rejection of rules?

This particular story has a point, purpose and message. Luke seems to be in on this as he's recording it. The focus is not rules -- it's the fact that he is a sinner in extravagant ways, while the father is loving in even more extravagant and yes, shameful, ways. Meanwhile, the elder brother, the one stuck in rules mode, earning it, etc is burning with hatred over this.

There is your "rule mode" again. If the elder brother was stuck in a "rule mode", then it only stands to reason the prodigal walked away from it. The elder brother was not rebellious, hence, he followed the rules. He obeyed his father. He just felt he was the better for it. But love covers a multitude of sin and that is a larger order. Something the elder son didn't understand. But, I think he may have learned it from his father's example. Perhaps not right away, but in time.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You insist on a rehearsal "speech" and I just see that he "came to himself" and wanted to go home.


That isn't what Romans 1:5 says. "...received grace and apostleship, for obedience .." I suppose we could quibble over "eis", but I believe it to mean expressing the purpose - "in order to" and not "because of".

I am not sure I disagree with Rob. If he considered going home because it was a better place for him, I'm not sure that didn't include the "rules of house". We have "rules" in our house.

When my daughter was 16 and acting out, I called her and said, "You have a choice. You can live here and honor this home and God or you can come and get all of your belongings." We have rules and they will be honored.

I don't see the prodigal son living in different environment and if he walked away because of foolish youth, he also walked away from obedience. That, again, entails some rules were broken.

Hi PO, good to see you posting again!

I agree with Socialite on the previent grace aspect of salvation for a couple of reasons:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

I believe salvation is synergistic, that is both God and man have a part in it, but without God initiating it, no one would ever be saved through Christ.