Rev 16:9, An Argument Against Universalism

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Please, stop and consider who fashioned "gods after our own liking"? Jesus said, I didn't come to condemn the world, rather to save the world.

Jesus doesn't have to condemn anyone. They are all already condemned

Joh 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Jesus doesn't have to condemn anyone. They are all already condemned

Joh 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Of course they are condemned? But by whom? Consider the follow response of JESUS, when the adulter was CONDEMNED by the religious leaders:

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

IT SEEMS FROM JESUS' RESPONSE THAT THE "condemned already" COMES FROM MAN NOT HIM.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Of course they are condemned? But by whom? Consider the follow response of JESUS, when the adulter was CONDEMNED by the religious leaders:

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

IT SEEMS FROM JESUS' RESPONSE THAT THE "condemned already" COMES FROM MAN NOT HIM.

Please please tell me you are not saying that Jesus meant "He that believes NOT is condemned by man already"?

The context shows Jesus is speaking of Spiritual things. One does not need to condemn the unbeliever because their own unbelief condemns them. Jesus is saying whoever believes in Christ is NOT condemned by the Pharisees??!?! No that does not make sense. No it's one's lack of faith that condemns them or is the reason why they are condemned "Because he has not believed"

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God."

They are condemned because they refuse to come to the light

The world is condemned. Believers are not
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Please please tell me you are not saying that Jesus meant "He that believes NOT is condemned by man already"?

The context shows Jesus is speaking of Spiritual things. One does not need to condemn the unbeliever because their own unbelief condemns them. Jesus is saying whoever believes in Christ is NOT condemned by the Pharisees??!?! No that does not make sense. No it's one's lack of faith that condemns them or is the reason why they are condemned "Because he has not believed"

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God."

They are condemned because they refuse to come to the light

The world is condemned. Believers are not
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Of course, I believe those that have not yet believed in the Lord, are condemned to judgment. We the elect will not be condemned to purifying judgment along with the world.

Just wondering how you would handle the adulterer that was not condemned, even though she had sinned and there is no recorded that she had repented.
In that context she was apparently only condemned by men? Maybe she was forced? Therefore, not guilty??