If he became sin, taking on our sins, and the cross was accepted as justice by God vis-à-vis the resurrection, then it is clear the remission of sins happened at the cross.
However, and I acknowledge this is a fine theological point and I could be wrong, but we access that "hiddenness in Christ" when we become heirs into the family. It's remitted for us, but to have access, we must be born into the family. This is why He is "the Way." And the "way in" is the same way Abraham got in -- by grace, through faith (Rom 4).
You keep imposing this on yourself, reading far into the post, which is, in fact, a discussion of "when we are saved" -- quite a popular topic on AFF over the years.
no sir. I imposed nothing.
I read the actual words in the post and responded.
I was then instructed on what I was supposed to read deeper meaning into the post.
the issue here is that I did not impose enough... of the right stuff... to get to the heart of the deception being brought forth with great aplomb and intellectual acumen
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
soup is important when you have a bad cold, but you can survive without it.
Even still I don't have a problem with you. I had a problem with the openeing post in this thread. It created a false arugment that neither represented the postion of us evil baptizers, nor of the poster making the charge.
we have already discussed this. it has become obtuse.
I recomend Vietnamese Pho when sick. Stick with the rare round steak. most American folk arent conditioned for the more hearty fat brisket, tendon, and bible tripe.
And yet, the opening post never posited the idea that you were an "evil baptizer" either; nor did it suggest that baptism itself is "evil" in any way. You've gotta give him that.
I agree with pel; the first post didn't seem to be questioning whether a person needed to repent, but whether or not a person's sins were remitted at baptism (as opposed to repentance).
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I read the actual words in the post and responded.
I was then instructed on what I was supposed to read deeper meaning into the post.
the issue here is that I did not impose enough... of the right stuff... to get to the heart of the deception being brought forth with great aplomb and intellectual acumen
And yet, the opening post never posited the idea that you were an "evil baptizer" either; nor did it suggest that baptism itself is "evil" in any way. You've gotta give him that.
Adino is clearly a very bright individual.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I agree with pel; the first post didn't seem to be questioning whether a person needed to repent, but whether or not a person's sins were remitted at baptism (as opposed to repentance).
...which is utter nonsense that Adino himself does not believe as we found out later in the thread...
which brings us back to why I engaged this silly topic.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Adino's view is that everyone's sins are remitted on the cross. The work is already done. One still needs to receive what Christ did by faith. I did not see anywhere in this thread where Adino says nobody needs to repent
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
...which is utter nonsense that Adino himself does not believe as we found out later in the thread...
which brings us back to why I engaged this silly topic.
Ferd,
Since when did it become a bad thing to pose a question for the sake of discussion or even to play the devil's advocate for the same reason?
You're being unreasonable.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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