The Slippery Emergent Slope

crakjak · #1 03-14-2011, 01:44 PM

To Driscoll's main point, that folks can know the goodness and holiness of God, in other words can truly know God and yet reject HIM is, in my opinion, blasphemous.

To "know" Him is to love, HIM, I do not believe any human can truly know God and still reject Him. That is the whole point, that in the end, all will be exposed to God as He is, and will literally be UNABLE to reject HIM.

Socialite · #2 03-14-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

To Driscoll's main point, that folks can know the goodness and holiness of God, in other words can truly know God and yet reject HIM is, in my opinion, blasphemous.

To "know" Him is to love, HIM, I do not believe any human can truly know God and still reject Him. That is the whole point, that in the end, all will be exposed to God as He is, and will literally be UNABLE to reject HIM.

And that's a Calvinist point (Irresistible Grace) that I don't fully accept.

I also believe in a form of predestination -- that is, that God knows the individual's response to God's good gifts, and in real-time, he elects those whom he foreknew.

Quite possibly, there are those who know God, but whose rebellion refuses to accept God and to know him more fully.

As far as you not believing people can reject God's goodness, that's your opinion to have, and one I'm okay with. The alternative view is surely not blasphemous and I think you're being a little over-reactive, even for your theology. Driscoll speaks of being aware of God, at the same level Paul would in Romans 1-2.

crakjak · #3 03-14-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

And that's a Calvinist point (Irresistible Grace) that I don't fully accept.

I also believe in a form of predestination -- that is, that God knows the individual's response to God's good gifts, and in real-time, he elects those whom he foreknew.

Quite possibly, there are those who know God, but whose rebellion refuses to accept God and to know him more fully.

As far as you not believing people can reject God's goodness, that's your opinion to have, and one I'm okay with. The alternative view is surely not blasphemous and I think you're being a little over-reactive, even for your theology. Driscoll speaks of being aware of God, at the same level Paul would in Romans 1-2.

I completely understand that men can become reprobate toward God in this life, because we only "...see thru a glass darkly..." God in essence hides Himself from man, so that man can experience the alternative to God in this life. Much like a wise human father, allows his children to experience the results of bad decisions, so that they may receive understanding.

But then, we will see "face to face", and all questions and hesitation will be removed. I am fully sure that no man can "see" God, and resist Him. So, no overreaction at all, He is that good, and that complete, His holiness is perfect.

Socialite · #4 03-15-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

I completely understand that men can become reprobate toward God in this life, because we only "...see thru a glass darkly..." God in essence hides Himself from man, so that man can experience the alternative to God in this life. Much like a wise human father, allows his children to experience the results of bad decisions, so that they may receive understanding.

But then, we will see "face to face", and all questions and hesitation will be removed. I am fully sure that no man can "see" God, and resist Him. So, no overreaction at all, He is that good, and that complete, His holiness is perfect.

You are making the assumption that we are able to come to repentance after the Judgment. And that's a very large, incredible assumption that has against a whole litany of scriptures, including the words of Jesus.

Yes, of course He's good. But by your logic, a God that is love would not send his own Son to die a horrific death. The justice of God is very clear. He has bore the sins for all who will believe. With every Gospel statement like John 3 is the idea that those who don't believe will have their own will be done, even until eternal separation from God.

Socialite · #5 03-16-2011, 12:21 AM

Rob Bell gets it handed to him in an MSNBC interview where he looks like a deer in the headlights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qg...layer_embedded

crakjak · #6 03-16-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Rob Bell gets it handed to him in an MSNBC interview where he looks like a deer in the headlights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qg...layer_embedded

Martin is very highly developed in asking the questions that flow directly from the traditional view of heaven and hell. His questions in the context of Bell's book are irrelevant, they are not important questions, they are defensive of an erroneous doctrine.

Is it important for folks to respond to Jesus in the life? Of course it is, but not for the reason's that tradition believe.

Martin was very hard on Bell in the interview, that's his job, but that doesn't lessen the message of the book in the least.