The poor in America

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

You know what most of them see when church people come? Not hope but a dollar or their next meal. Many of them don't want church because of the demands churches make on them.

That is why even 1% of success with the homeless is a winner!

And our primary intent should not be to get them to church.

Love unconditional. Love because it's right. Love because it's just. Love because we were loved.

We are hose of water, soaking everyone we meet with love and Grace. Not with scheming evangelism, though always attentive to spiritual needs, and always ready to share the Gospel. But that's now why we love.

And btw, not all of them see just a dollar. That's usually all they get, if it's not people walking to the opposite side of the street (I assume you're talking about homeless? See how easy it is to lose definition of our subject). Most treasure and value a good, long conversation. There's an org in our city that serves the homeless each week. They feed them, wash their feet (yes footwashing), give them clean socks, and... their favorite part... ask them how they are doing. These guys will talk for a full hour! They feel worthwhile, dignity restored. Most wouldn't mind keeping a distance, pitching out a buck to get them out of their way.

But again, homelessness is only one part of what poverty is.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Socialite

And our primary intent should not be to get them to church.

Love unconditional. Love because it's right. Love because it's just. Love because we were loved.

We are hose of water, soaking everyone we meet with love and Grace. Not with scheming evangelism, though always attentive to spiritual needs, and always ready to share the Gospel. But that's now why we love.

Actually is it not? Is it not to reach their soul? If the Lord comes tomorrow and they don't repent won't they die lost? You can't fault a Christian for wanting this. Its just they don't see it that way because they have not had grace awaken them to the condition of the soul. Its hard for us to be patient but thats really what we need to do.

Are you an advocate of feeding the homeless and not preaching at all to them or giving them any word from the Lord?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Actually is it not? Is it not to reach their soul? If the Lord comes tomorrow and they don't repent won't they die lost? You can't fault a Christian for wanting this. Its just they don't see it that way because they have not had grace awaken them to the condition of the soul. Its hard for us to be patient but thats really what we need to do.

Are you an advocate of feeding the homeless and not preaching at all to them or giving them any word from the Lord?

I'm not an advocate of bait and switch. I'm not meeting their need to preach to them. I'm loving on them because I was loved so much. In that way, I AM presenting the Gospel. When we've gone out with the homeless, we always will offer prayer, we listen, we encourage when we can... we build relationships, even knowing many of their names. We most definitely are willing to share with them the Story of what Christ has done, but they don't have to consent to hearing the Gospel to having a need that we want to meet. They are broken, just like we were... and really, in many ways, still are until our final redemption.

Serving is what we do as a result of the Gospel. We were served, and we serve.

But again, in context of the post, this is only one aspect of poverty.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I'm not an advocate of bait and switch. I'm not meeting their need to preach to them. I'm loving on them because I was loved so much. In that way, I AM presenting the Gospel. When we've gone out with the homeless, we always will offer prayer, we listen, we encourage when we can... we build relationships, even knowing many of their names. We most definitely are willing to share with them the Story of what Christ has done, but they don't have to consent to hearing the Gospel to having a need that we want to meet. They are broken, just like we were... and really, in many ways, still are until our final redemption.

Serving is what we do as a result of the Gospel. We were served, and we serve.

But again, in context of the post, this is only one aspect of poverty.

Honestly the bait and switch in the only kind of homeless ministry I've seen from churches. Even in homes, they have tracts laying places. I think its a great opportunity to share with them the gospel, thats why most do it in my opinion. What greater love can someone give them but the message of salvation?

There are other faiths that give love without preaching or telling them about their faith. Celebrities do it all the time for humanitarian reasons. Is that the way the church should be?

[Praxeas]

Our primary goal should be to get them saved

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Our primary goal should be to get them saved

Primary goal with what? Our mission in general? Our mission in general is to make disciples.

But I don't love on people because I'm trying to "achieve a goal." I love them because that's exactly what Jesus did to me and to you. I love them because He is love, and our heart breaks for what breaks him. Our love is sincere. It doesn't have ill motives. We are patient with them, because He is patient with us. Charity is always dependent on reciprocation --- "I'll give you a meal, but you have to attend church with me." Compassion is unconditional. "I'll love you, would love for you to know the Jesus that loves me, but, even if you don't, I'll still love you."

Both ways we are looking to make disciples, but our compassion is not pushed by that, it's pushed by the radiating love of the Spirit that floods from the graciousness in our hearts.

I say this as a distinction because I've seen it both ways. In the end, these efforts aren't competing with each other. We share the Gospel with more than words

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Primary goal with what? Our mission in general? Our mission in general is to make disciples.

But I don't love on people because I'm trying to "achieve a goal." I love them because that's exactly what Jesus did to me and to you. I love them because He is love, and our heart breaks for what breaks him. Our love is sincere. It doesn't have ill motives. We are patient with them, because He is patient with us. Charity is always dependent on reciprocation --- "I'll give you a meal, but you have to attend church with me." Compassion is unconditional. "I'll love you, would love for you to know the Jesus that loves me, but, even if you don't, I'll still love you."

Both ways we are looking to make disciples, but our compassion is not pushed by that, it's pushed by the radiating love of the Spirit that floods from the graciousness in our hearts.

I say this as a distinction because I've seen it both ways. In the end, these efforts aren't competing with each other. We share the Gospel with more than words

No bible verses?

You don't seem to have compassion.

Luke 24:46 says to teach Repentence and remissiion of sins.

Stephen was feeding widows while being broken in for ministry.

Yesterday you are talking up gubment. They are shutting down.

"he that winneth souls is wise"

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

No bible verses?

You don't seem to have compassion.

Luke 24:46 says to teach Repentence and remissiion of sins.

Stephen was feeding widows while being broken in for ministry.

Yesterday you are talking up gubment. They are shutting down.

"he that winneth souls is wise"

I haven't said one friggin word about GOVERNMENT. So get off your dead horse!

Speaking of strawmen -- nor did I say, sharing the Gospel, and proclaiming that people should turn to God is not our mission. Read again!! These are not competing goals. They flow out of each other -- but most people use their church's influence in its community like a corporation does to gain PR and bring in profit. Ours is a much more transcendent mandate and duty, and comes out of the grace we've received. We are gracious people because he was gracious to us. That's it. There's no motives tied to it. We've handed out food and prayed for some, witnessed miracles for some, and others who want nothing to do with Jesus, we've loved them just the same.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Our primary goal should be to get them saved

I agree. Let the Catholics buy the groceries.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by coadie

I agree. Let the Catholics buy the groceries.

See Coadie, this is exactly what I'm talking about...

Don't appear shocked when you get called out for your ridiculousness.

Go ahead and ignore just about all of scripture, in it's teaching for how we should care for the poor. Good job. Just get them tongue-talking. Forget their real needs. And if we have to, let's throw them some bread and a marketing tract if that will help grow our churches. TIC