Why does Oneness deny Son as creator?

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

So are you saying that the SON existed together with the father at the creation of the universe, and that they then both created as Hebrews 1:2 states: Yes or NO? Secondly, what do you mean by 'God's power?' Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Holy Spirit is God's power, i.e. an impersonal immaterial force, so are you saying something like this about the Son? Please explain your definition of the logos as a force. thanks

I'm not saying the Son existed, I'm saying the logos (divine expression, see John 1) existed. I'm also saying that Jesus' sonship, His status as the Son, had a beginning because it was begotten, according to the prophetic psalm, on "this day." Hebrews 1:2 does not say that Father and Son together created, it says that Jesus is the means by which the Father created. The Father did the creating, Jesus was the logos (the word, thought and power behind these) with which God spoke Creation into existence.

Originally Posted by Chan

Hebrews 1:2 does not say that Father and Son together created, it says that Jesus is the means by which the Father created. The Father did the creating, Jesus was the logos (the word, thought and power behind these) with which God spoke Creation into existence.

Then why doesn't hebrews 1:2 read: “has in these last days spoken to us by JESUS, whom he has appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.” Hebrews 1:2 NKJV.

Why does the text state 'HIS SON' and what does 'HIS SON' mean?


“has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.” Hebrews 1:2 NKJV.

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Then why doesn't hebrews 1:2 read: “has in these last days spoken to us by JESUS, whom he has appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.” Hebrews 1:2 NKJV.

Why does the text state 'HIS SON' and what does 'HIS SON' mean?


“has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.” Hebrews 1:2 NKJV.

Because the writer is referring to the Son in the present tense, to a point within time, and not to eternity. As "the Son," Jesus existed within time.

Originally Posted by Chan

Because the writer is referring to the Son in the present tense, to a point within time, and not to eternity. As "the Son," Jesus existed within time.

Yes but this Son, who's mentioned as the Son is said to have created the universe, so how can the Son be the creator and yet not exist before bethlehem? The text of hebrews 1:2 does say Son.

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Yes but this Son, who's mentioned as the Son is said to have created the universe, so how can the Son be the creator and yet not exist before bethlehem? The text of hebrews 1:2 does say Son.

No, it doesn't say that the Son created, it says that God created BY this One who is also the Son. AS THE SON, Jesus was begotten, had a beginning, which could not be possible if Jesus AS THE SON is eternal. The notion of an eternal Son is an oxymoron, particularly since the Bible specifically says the Son is begotten.