"Those who bless you will be blessed..."

[mfblume]

With all the talk of Obama and his views on Israel, people are thinking God cannot bless America if America pulls back from blessing Israel.

They get this from the scripture that shows God blessed Abraham with this promise:

Genesis 12:1-3 KJV Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (2) And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: (3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Notice that Paul commented upon unbelieving Israel in contrast to the church, when it came to blessings and cursings:

Galatians 3:8-10 KJV And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. (9) So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (10) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Does this mean those Jews under law DO NOT QUALIFY FOR THE BLESSING THAT SAYS, "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed"?

And what about these verses:

Galatians 4:21-31 KJV Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? (22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. (23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. (24) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (25) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. (26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (27) For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. (28) Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (29) But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (30) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. (31) So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Heir of what? Heir of Abraham's blessings? Does this mean unbelieving Israel cannot be heir to the promise that God would bless those who bless them?

The son of the bondwoman stood for Israelites who did not believe in Christ. Paul likened them to Ishmael. The son of the freewoman stood for Christians whether they be Jews of Gentiles. Paul likened them to Isaac.

So, does this imply that the promise of God to bless those who bless Abraham's heirs, and curse those who curse Abraham's heirs, cannot apply to unbelieving Israelites?

When Paul said, "the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman", did he mean the inheritance of the blessings in Genesis 12 cannot be enjoyed by unbelieving Israel?

[Truthseeker]

yep

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When Paul said, "the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman", did he mean the inheritance of the blessings in Genesis 12 cannot be enjoyed by unbelieving Israel?

If not, then why not?

I do not think the lack of blessing of Abraham on unbelieving Israel means we should abandon aid to Israel. Israel is one of the only democratic nations over there. We need to help Israel for that matter, if none else! But as the message version speaks of Israel:

Romans 11:28 MSG From your point of view as you hear and embrace the good news of the Message, it looks like the Jews are God's enemies. But looked at from the long-range perspective of God's overall purpose, they remain God's oldest friends.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mfblume

If not, then why not?

I do not think the lack of blessing of Abraham on unbelieving Israel means we should abandon aid to Israel. Israel is one of the only democratic nations over there. We need to help Israel for that matter, if none else! But as the message version speaks of Israel:

Romans 11:28 MSG From your point of view as you hear and embrace the good news of the Message, it looks like the Jews are God's enemies. But looked at from the long-range perspective of God's overall purpose, they remain God's oldest friends.

God has promised to preserve Israel. Israel is a natural people, given a promise of a natural land, natural laws, natural kingdom, natural borders...on and on...natural.

Israel carefully preserved the Word of God. This work was given to the exclusive work of a whole tribe. She so carefully preserved the Word of God to the point that they would not so much as write a representative of the name of God without changing clothes and ceremonial washings after which they wrote the name in symbols.

The meticulous preservation of the Word was so careful, so diligent that it pleased God. Thus, they heaped upon themselves his everlasting preservation for their preservation of His Word.

[GISG]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

God has promised to preserve Israel. Israel is a natural people, given a promise of a natural land, natural laws, natural kingdom, natural borders...on and on...natural.

Israel carefully preserved the Word of God. This work was given to the exclusive work of a whole tribe. She so carefully preserved the Word of God to the point that they would not so much as write a representative of the name of God without changing clothes and ceremonial washings after which they wrote the name in symbols.

The meticulous preservation of the Word was so careful, so diligent that it pleased God. Thus, they heaped upon themselves his everlasting preservation for their preservation of His Word.

Brother,
What a wonderful thing to read and to know. Thank you for sharing this!

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by GISG

Brother,
What a wonderful thing to read and to know. Thank you for sharing this!

Sister,

You are a wonderful encourager. Thank you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

God has promised to preserve Israel. Israel is a natural people, given a promise of a natural land, natural laws, natural kingdom, natural borders...on and on...natural.

Do you think that Israel can be blessed naturally with the promise in Gen 12 of whoever blesses them will be blessed, even though Paul said those under the law are under a curse? Could that mean Israel cannot even be blessed naturally while under Law since Christ came or only not blessed spiritually?

I am wondering if Paul meant they were blessed naturally before the cross, but upon rejection of Christ they lost even the natural blessings since they chose to retain law-keeping at a time when law-keeping ended at the cross.

Thanks!

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Do you think that Israel can be blessed naturally with the promise in Gen 12 of whoever blesses them will be blessed, even though Paul said those under the law are under a curse? Could that mean Israel cannot even be blessed naturally while under Law since Christ came or only not blessed spiritually?

I am wondering if Paul meant they were blessed naturally before the cross, but upon rejection of Christ they lost even the natural blessings since they chose to retain law-keeping at a time when law-keeping ended at the cross.

Thanks!

From what I read in the Word which could be documented in many places, the promise to Abraham and his seed was both natural and spiritual. This is seen as God called Abraham's attention to both the stars of the heaven and the sands of the sea. One is spiritual seed as understood by the heavenly stars and the natural seed as understood being earthly sand of the sea.

There is blessing conferred upon Abraham's seed in both instances, one is spiritual or heavenly and the other is natural or earthly. It seems that the blessings upon natural Israel is perpetual since the words "unto all generations" is used in conjunction with both a command and blessings...the great distress and desolation of the Jewish nation notwithstanding.

It seems that both distress and blessings are in view and seemingly a paradox. But, consider what would have happened to the Jews by now had the blessings of Abraham in the natural sense had not been conferred upon them. No other blood line or nation of people has been able to exist through the generations as they have. Any other people would have long ago been lost into almost oblivion. Not only have the people been preserved and watched over, but so has their customs, laws, language, and religion. Now, their land has been restored since 1948. Nothing short of a miracle of the Phoenix can anything else be so compared. It must be the fulfillment of Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones.

[GISG]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

From what I read in the Word which could be documented in many places, the promise to Abraham and his seed was both natural and spiritual. This is seen as God called Abraham's attention to both the stars of the heaven and the sands of the sea. One is spiritual seed as understood by the heavenly stars and the natural seed as understood being earthly sand of the sea.

There is blessing conferred upon Abraham's seed in both instances, one is spiritual or heavenly and the other is natural or earthly. It seems that the blessings upon natural Israel is perpetual since the words "unto all generations" is used in conjunction with both a command and blessings...the great distress and desolation of the Jewish nation notwithstanding.

It seems that both distress and blessings are in view and seemingly a paradox. But, consider what would have happened to the Jews by now had the blessings of Abraham in the natural sense had not been conferred upon them. No other blood line or nation of people has been able to exist through the generations as they have. Any other people would have long ago been lost into almost oblivion. Not only have the people been preserved and watched over, but so has their customs, laws, language, and religion. Now, their land has been restored since 1948. Nothing short of a miracle of the Phoenix can anything else be so compared. It must be the fulfillment of Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones.

Thanks again for posting this answer. It clears up some things and cements others in my mind concerning Israel.

I have a natural affection for Israel and the Jewish people since it is part of my earthly heritage and am always most interested in God's view of these matters.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

From what I read in the Word which could be documented in many places, the promise to Abraham and his seed was both natural and spiritual. This is seen as God called Abraham's attention to both the stars of the heaven and the sands of the sea. One is spiritual seed as understood by the heavenly stars and the natural seed as understood being earthly sand of the sea.

There is blessing conferred upon Abraham's seed in both instances, one is spiritual or heavenly and the other is natural or earthly. It seems that the blessings upon natural Israel is perpetual since the words "unto all generations" is used in conjunction with both a command and blessings...the great distress and desolation of the Jewish nation notwithstanding.

It seems that both distress and blessings are in view and seemingly a paradox. But, consider what would have happened to the Jews by now had the blessings of Abraham in the natural sense had not been conferred upon them. No other blood line or nation of people has been able to exist through the generations as they have. Any other people would have long ago been lost into almost oblivion. Not only have the people been preserved and watched over, but so has their customs, laws, language, and religion. Now, their land has been restored since 1948. Nothing short of a miracle of the Phoenix can anything else be so compared. It must be the fulfillment of Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones.

Excellent post and I agree completely.