Sin nature

[Austin]

I don't think Paul was saying he didn't have the ability to stop sinning, or else he would not have in other chapters and verses told others not to sin.
As far as Jesus is concerned I don't think he was born with the spiritual nature to sin, neither do I believe he ever wanted to sin at any time , nor did he ever have a desire to sin in the first place. If his nature were sinful or the same as humanities spiritual nature, he would have yielded to temptation just like mankind does every day.
I believe we can live above sin and will never believe that we have to sin.
The ones that are lost and separated from the life of god cannot stop from sinning, they do it without thought of their actions.
I mean come on, Adam had one commandment to keep. And chose the woman over God, and your telling me he was perfect before he fell. He may have been perfect in the sense he never broke any of God's commandments.But in the truth of who Adam really was is in the the witness that his desire was for himself and not for god.
That woman and being with her meant more than the spiritual fellowship he had with God. That's enough proof for me that just because he was created by the hand of god didn't make him perfect. In fact I really think that is the way god knew it would turn out, and also the way which he was expecting it to turn out.
Adam in no way is comparable to jesus in birth or spirit.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Austin

I don't think Paul was saying he didn't have the ability to stop sinning, or else he would not have in other chapters and verses told others not to sin.

Paul was explaining something quite important that many miss, I believe. He was describing a sin nature in him that operates when we exert self effort. There is a way to see it inoperative and lie dormant. That way is walking after the Spirit and doing what Rom 6:13 told us to do. Rely upon the Spirit's power instead of fleshly power.

So, on his own without Spiritual empowerment, Paul could not stop sinning. But the fact remains there was a law and moral force at work in him that otherwise tore Him down. Christ did not have that force of sin in Him, neither did Adam.

As far as Jesus is concerned I don't think he was born with the spiritual nature to sin, neither do I believe he ever wanted to sin at any time , nor did he ever have a desire to sin in the first place.

This is what Adam was created like as well./ Christ is the Last man Adam.

If his nature were sinful or the same as humanities spiritual nature, he would have yielded to temptation just like mankind does every day.

I agree. But I also claim what Jesus was like as a man was just like Adam.

I believe we can live above sin and will never believe that we have to sin.
The ones that are lost and separated from the life of god cannot stop from sinning, they do it without thought of their actions.
I mean come on, Adam had one commandment to keep. And chose the woman over God, and your telling me he was perfect before he fell. He may have been perfect in the sense he never broke any of God's commandments.But in the truth of who Adam really was is in the the witness that his desire was for himself and not for god.

Like Praxeas said, the power of CHOICE is all Adam used and chose wrongly. That did not mean he was not perfect. The only way Adam was imperfect is that he had not yet gone to the Fruit of Life to ingest the LIFE OF GOD, which is what the LIFE of the tree of life spoke about. Other than that Adam did not have a bend to sin like we do.

That woman and being with her meant more than the spiritual fellowship he had with God. That's enough proof for me that just because he was created by the hand of god didn't make him perfect.

I disagree. God makes nothing imperfect.

In fact I really think that is the way god knew it would turn out, and also the way which he was expecting it to turn out.
Adam in no way is comparable to jesus in birth or spirit.

You are saying God makes imperfect things. I could not more strongly disagree. It was not very good, according to your view, if Adam was as you describe.

Gen 2: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I do not call making a man with sinful tendency "very good." God makes all things well.

Your view is actually making God the culprit since He judged man for something you believe HE CREATED MAN TO DO. What kind of righteousness is that? You are saying GOD WILLED for man to sin, since He created man with that propensity. You really want to say that? You are saying it was God's will that Adam disobey Him. It becomes a sham and royal deception on the part of God to tell Adam not to sin and yet have made Adam with the bend to do that very sin. Sorry. No go, bro.

The only way Adam could be perfect in that estimation is to not have the ability to choose, because that is the only thing you are relying on to say he was imperfect. Like Praxeas said, that makes God imperfect.