Athanasian Creed

[Aquila]

I think the Athanasian Creed is way too dogmatic and can be a bit confusing, even if considered "theologically" correct. I'd prefer the Nicene Creed over the Athanasian any day:

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I believe the Apostle's Creed is far more simple... but it isn't as detailed regarding various truths.

[Aquila]

I found this interesting:

Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D)

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I found this interesting:

Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D)

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

i sorta like that one

[Michael The Disciple]

My creed in a nutshell.

9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6


2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Tim. 2:5

Jesus is both.

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

My creed in a nutshell.

9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6


2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Tim. 2:5

Jesus is both.

Hear, hear! Who needs a creed when you have it spelled out in scripture?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Hear, hear! Who needs a creed when you have it spelled out in scripture?

i know .. i can never find in scripture though
repent be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remision of sin and you shall recieve the Holy ghost (with evidence of speaking in other tounges)

the italics part is in not in my bible but i have looked for it though ..

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

This pretty much sums it up for me!

This one was formulated to try and unite all the Christians who believed that Jesus was (is) God and to rally them against the Arians who were the dominant sect from the death of Constantine until about the time of the Emperor Theodosius.

The longer "Athanasian Creed" (which had nothing to do with Athanasius himself) came along centuries later and represented something of a bungling of both Tertullian's language and his theology. It would be another 1200+ years before folks finally began to straighten out some of these misapprehensions.

And... I agree. The older "Nicene" creed does represent a good pithy set of statements to which all Christians can identify - though many today would want to make it less pithy.

[Michael The Disciple]

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Modern Trins dont believe Jesus was begotten before all worlds do they? How does that relate to the doctrine of Eternal Son?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Modern Trins dont believe Jesus was begotten before all worlds do they? How does that relate to the doctrine of Eternal Son?

That is at least the idea behind "the doctrine of the Eternal Son." They ("modern Trins") believe that Jesus (the Eternal Son) was eternally begotten of the Father. That is, the Eternal Son was begotten "before all worlds."

Many Trinitarians, however, believe that the "pre-Bethlehem" Jesus Christ wasn't "the Eternal Son," but rather, He was the Logos; the Word of God. It was the Logos that was "made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father" and not "the Eternal Son" (for which I cannot quote a verse).

John 1:14

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

My creed in a nutshell.

9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6


2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Tim. 2:5

Jesus is both.

Are you still trying to maintain that Isaiah 9:6, should be interpreted as "everlasting Father?" I though we Oneness people gave up on that long ago when the preponderance of evidence showed it to be a faulty rendering of the KJV.