Immigration and welfare???

[Walks_in_islam]

Which summarizes my original point. We are missing a criminal statute with criminal penalties. And yes Title 8 is where all the laws regarding citizenship and immigration are found. <grin> including the laws applicable to what constitutes natural born citizenship where coadie and his friends need to be searching for "birther" arguments.

Originally Posted by pelathais

The penalties for illegally entering the United States tend to be considered "civil penalties" rather than "criminal," (sort of like a traffic ticket) but the consequences are still very real - if and when they're enforced.

While in the commission of the "civil" violation a person might also end up committing a felony - as in the case of committing fraud by using forged, altered or stolen documents or if you were the one doing the "human smuggling." The human being smuggled appears to have only committed a civil infraction and would likely get a ticket with a mandatory court appearance to discuss their situation with a judge.

The most recent penalties for illegally entering the U.S. are actually found in Title II of the House Conference Report for House Resolution 3610 of the 104th Congress (September 1996). http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...104query.html|

This was the famous (or infamous?) compromise worked out between Bill Clinton and the new Republican majority in Congress.

"Division C" of this report contains the text of the "Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. Within that division, Section 105 amends Section 275 of (8 U.S.C. 1325) - I believe that this may be the "Title 8" to which you referred earlier.



Granted, it ain't much... but there is a penalty for illegally entering the United States. And, as I said before - if the "illegal immigrant" commits other crimes to facilitate their entry, such as human smuggling, document fraud, trespassing on Federal, State or Private lands, or whatever... at least hypothetically, those crimes can be added to the civil penalties described in the image above.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Which summarizes my original point. We are missing a criminal statute with criminal penalties. And yes Title 8 is where all the laws regarding citizenship and immigration are found. <grin> including the laws applicable to what constitutes natural born citizenship where coadie and his friends need to be searching for "birther" arguments.

The fact that it is a "civil" infraction rather than a "criminal infraction" doesn't really change the argument. And, from a practical standpoint, it's pretty hard to enter the U.S. illegally and to stay in the U.S. without breaking some criminal statute along the way, unless you've got a generous benefactor who's willing to provide you with everything you need.

Since American employers are required to hire only those who are in the U.S. legally (or they will face criminal prosecution) every job applicant in America is asked about their residency status. Lie about that and you've committed fraud. Tell the truth about that and the illegal won't be hired.

[Walks_in_islam]

We are not in argument on this. My own wife was an immigrant - a legal one and though the process is painful and expensive and time-consuming there is a set process in place to do it right.

Nothing sets me off like seeing the process skipped - but I did much looking into how these illegals get away with it and concluded that to them its like when you choose to park in the shade on the grass at the zoo for the cost of the $10 parking ticket. They do it and cheerfully take the penalty when it comes and still benefit from it.

As pointed out in an earlier post you don't benefit from crossing borders illegally in other countries because the penalty is harsh to do so (including the southern border of Mexico where you can get shot crossing). You also do not automatically gain citizenship in other countries just because you are born there. You go to your embassy, register the birth, and get the BC/Passport from your home country. WE also need to re-define what "under the jurisdiction of the US" means and categorally place children of non-citizens under the jurisdiction of their various countries. THEN the consulates can take off some of the time they spend visiting their inmates in our prisons and use it to issue birth notices and passports to their own citizens. THEN there would be NO benefit to being in the US illegally.

ALSO - if you are travelling/visiting and you go to the hospital in other countries you better be ready to fork over some kind of payment on the spot or before you leave. They don't have to treat you for free and our hospitals should not be forced to do it either. WE are making it too easy to be here illegally and we need to start yanking the rugs out one by one - but we should eliminate the major benefits and the problem would/should for the most part take care of itself.

Originally Posted by pelathais

The fact that it is a "civil" infraction rather than a "criminal infraction" doesn't really change the argument. And, from a practical standpoint, it's pretty hard to enter the U.S. illegally and to stay in the U.S. without breaking some criminal statute along the way, unless you've got a generous benefactor who's willing to provide you with everything you need.

Since American employers are required to hire only those who are in the U.S. legally (or they will face criminal prosecution) every job applicant in America is asked about their residency status. Lie about that and you've committed fraud. Tell the truth about that and the illegal won't be hired.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

We are not in argument on this. My own wife was an immigrant - a legal one and though the process is painful and expensive and time-consuming there is a set process in place to do it right.

.

There are Millions of muslims that would pay the price to become American citizens. On Independence day we need to remember a Christian nation and democracy is what is missing in the world.

I bet she is glad to be a citizen of a Christian country.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by coadie

There are Millions of muslims that would pay the price to become American citizens. On Independence day we need to remember a Christian nation and democracy is what is missing in the world.

I bet she is glad to be a citizen of a Christian country.

*sigh!*