Why does Oneness deny Son as creator?

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

This portion of the creed doesn't state that.

No portion of the Creed says it!

Originally Posted by Chan

No portion of the Creed says it!

Firstly you never quoted the whole creed and secondly, my faith is based on scripture and not on any creed, so I frankly don't care what it says. I've been sayign for years that the creeds are inacurate re eternal generation, all of them teach this and I reject this theory, so I don't even accept this creed as Biblically accurate. Why then are you avoiding the scriptures but in love with this erronious creed?

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Firstly you never quoted the whole creed and secondly, my faith is based on scripture and not on any creed, so I frankly don't care what it says. I've been sayign for years that the creeds are inacurate re eternal generation, all of them teach this and I reject this theory, so I don't even accept this creed as Biblically accurate. Why then are you avoiding the scriptures but in love with this erronious creed?

There is nothing in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (as used in Orthodox churches, not the corrupted version used in Roman Catholic and Protestant churches) that says anything about eternal generation. Of course, Creeds are nothing more than statements of faith, statements of what one believes, and are mere interpretations of scripture (just as the oneness and trinity doctrines are merely interpretations of scripture).

Here's the entire Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 A.D. that I adhere to.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages^, Light of Light, True God of True God, Begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made:

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;

And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;

And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father;

And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the Prophets;

And we believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,

And the life of the age to come. Amen.


^ Many Orthodox priests today would say this is the equivalent of the phrase "eternally begotten" in the Roman Catholic version of the Creed (which also contains the heretical filioque, i.e. that the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father and the Son). However, there is no evdence that the phrases are equivalent. Further, in Revelation we're told Jesus is the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world (the equivalent of "before all ages") but we know that this is being used in the sense that God decreed even before the Creation that He would have an only-begotten Son that would be the sacrificial Lamb for the sins of the world. So also, God decreed before all ages that He would have this only-begotten Son, Jesus. While Athanasius was opposed to those who said there was a time when the Son was not, he seemed to be referring to Jesus in general and not specifically to His status as the Son, since the Son was begotten and, thus, had a beginning.


I also adhere to the Confession of the Synod of Mar Aqaq (486 A.D.) except for the use of the phrase "copies of":

But our faith in the dispensation of Christ should also be in a confession of two natures of Godhead and manhood, none of us venturing to introduce mixture, commingling, or confusion into the distinctions of those two natures. Instead, while Godhead remains and is preserved in that which belongs to it, and manhood in that which belongs to it, we combine the copies of their natures in one Lordship and one worship because of the perfect and inseparable conjunction which the Godhead had with the manhood. If anyone thinks or teaches others that suffering and change adhere to the Godhead of our Lord, not preserving - in regard to the union of the parsopa* of our Savior - the confession of perfect God and perfect man, the same shall be anathema.

The Confession simplified: those things pertaining to Jesus' divinity do not pertain to His humanity and those things pertaining to His humanity do not pertain to His divinity. This, by the way, was the doctrine that Nestorius taught.

*The Aramaic equivalent of the Greek word prosopon.