Any Message Believers Here?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by meetingplace

I'm not convinced either way concerning serpent seed, I'm currently examining the belief.

What's some of the arguments against the doctrine?

Branham argued that Genesis reads Adam knew Eve and she conceived and bare Cain and then again bare Abel. He said one "knowing" but two kids. So the serpent was the father of Cain, not Abel.

Genesis 4:1-2 KJV And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. (2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

But that is a very flimsy argument. It more plainly implies Adam begat Cain since it mentions Cain right after we read Adam knew Eve.

Then he said Seth was born in the likeness of Adam which it did not say of Cain...

Genesis 5:3 KJV And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

But it never said it of Abel, either!

He claimed when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil, it was literal as though they were from Cain, child of satan. However, EVERYONE is of the devil before they are saved.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Branham argued that Genesis reads Adam knew Eve and she conceived and bare Cain and then again bare Abel. He said one "knowing" but two kids. So the serpent was the father of Cain, not Abel.

Genesis 4:1-2 KJV And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. (2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

But that is a very flimsy argument. It more plainly implies Adam begat Cain since it mentions Cain right after we read Adam knew Eve.

Then he said Seth was born in the likeness of Adam which it did not say of Cain...

Genesis 5:3 KJV And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

But it never said it of Abel, either!

He claimed when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil, it was literal as though they were from Cain, child of satan. However, EVERYONE is of the devil before they are saved.

His argument was based on this scripture:
John 8
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So Branham's arguement was "why would the Jews say they were not born of fornication when Jesus said the devil was their Father?"

What do you guys think? Why did the Jews answer that way?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

His argument was based on this scripture:
John 8
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So Branham's arguement was "why would the Jews say they were not born of fornication when Jesus said the devil was their Father?"

What do you guys think? Why did the Jews answer that way?

The Jews said this to Jesus as a slap against Mary being unmarried when she was pregnant, as though her and Joseph fornicated. They contrasted Jesus' birth from their own by allegations of Mary's fornication.

[samuelofisrael]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

His argument was based on this scripture:
John 8
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So Branham's arguement was "why would the Jews say they were not born of fornication when Jesus said the devil was their Father?"

What do you guys think? Why did the Jews answer that way?

John 8 proves Branham's version of "serpent seed" as fallacious.

The fact that the serpent [satan] has a seed but not a biological seed is the issue. Hence the two words employed in the Greek Text.

Those who opposed Yeshua were of the their father [pater] the devil. Yet, they claimed to be the offspring [sperma] of Abraham. That is, by lineage and by genetic breeding. Yeshua agreed with them that Abraham was indeed their father [of his sperma] but they were [nevertheless] "of" the devil.

One of Branham's errors [among many] was that the conjunction "of" indicated biological descent. Not so. Clearly they were of the devil but not of biological descent.

One can be of the "sperma" [literal descent of Abraham] and be "of" their "pater" the devil.

Rev 22 identifies the Old Serpent as the devil, satan.

The many folk tales, Big Foot, "missing link," Kaballah, etc is the stuff of fiction generated by men of UNregenerate minds.

One approaches the fork in the road ... believe the Word and Jesus' exposition or a failed group of folks who are ignorant, fearful, gullible and perhaps, forever deceived.

Even so, come soon Lord Jesus.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by samuelofisrael

John 8 proves Branham's version of "serpent seed" as fallacious.

The fact that the serpent [satan] has a seed but not a biological seed is the issue. Hence the two words employed in the Greek Text.

Those who opposed Yeshua were of the their father [pater] the devil. Yet, they claimed to be the offspring [sperma] of Abraham. That is, by lineage and by genetic breeding. Yeshua agreed with them that Abraham was indeed their father [of his sperma] but they were [nevertheless] "of" the devil.

One of Branham's errors [among many] was that the conjunction "of" indicated biological descent. Not so. Clearly they were of the devil but not of biological descent.

One can be of the "sperma" [literal descent of Abraham] and be "of" their "pater" the devil.

Rev 22 identifies the Old Serpent as the devil, satan.

The many folk tales, Big Foot, "missing link," Kaballah, etc is the stuff of fiction generated by men of UNregenerate minds.

One approaches the fork in the road ... believe the Word and Jesus' exposition or a failed group of folks who are ignorant, fearful, gullible and perhaps, forever deceived.

Even so, come soon Lord Jesus.

So here's a question:
Gen 3:15 (NIV)
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”


So we see four entities in this verse:
1. You (referring to the serpent)
2. The woman (referring to Eve)
3. The offspring of the serpent (what is that??)
4. The offspring of the woman (referring to Christ)

So what do you think the "offspring of the serpent" is?

[samuelofisrael]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

So here's a question:
Gen 3:15 (NIV)
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”


So we see four entities in this verse:
1. You (referring to the serpent)
2. The woman (referring to Eve)
3. The offspring of the serpent (what is that??)
4. The offspring of the woman (referring to Christ)

So what do you think the "offspring of the serpent" is?

Jesus answered that question for you in John 8.

Two Greek Words are used in this passage and in fact, both the seed of the serpent AND the seed of Abraham are of the same descent but of a different "seed."

Follow if you will.

The Seed of the Woman is surely Jesus [Yeshua] the [Christ] Messiah.
The seed of the serpent is the non elect seed [sperma] of Abraham by natural descent but of their "father" [not sperma but pater, the devil].

The unbelieving Israelites were of the "sperma" of Abraham but were of their "father" the devil. These are the Words of the King and not my exposition.

Jn 8:37-44

I know that ye are Abraham's seed [Gk. "sperma"]; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father [pater] the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


The opposers of Yeshua were of the natural lineage of Abraham [sperma/seed] as Jesus fully admits but their "father" was the devil. Here we are not dealing ONLY with a biological descent but something far more important, that of spiritual faith. Those who were of Abrahams 'natural' line had no part nor lot with Jesus but took their descent [spiriturally] from satan. This Jesus sought to not only agree with them that they were of the "sperma" of Abraham but that their father was the devil.

We transcend mere biological descent into the mystery of election wherein one is of the "sperma" of Abraham AND a son of God and the other is also of the "sperma" of Abraham and yet, of their father the devil.

May I interject a passage from Apostolic Doctrine here:



Ro 9:11-17

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.



Even so, come Lord Jesus

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

His argument was based on this scripture:
John 8
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So Branham's arguement was "why would the Jews say they were not born of fornication when Jesus said the devil was their Father?"

What do you guys think? Why did the Jews answer that way?

The Jews were calling Jesus a "bastard". After all, they reasoned, was he not conceived out of wedlock?

[thaddaeus417]

The man was a false prophet and a reprobate with a confused mind. The guy didn't even try to preach the truth and people are unsure about him? Simply look at the fruit of his ministry. Where was his discernment with Jim Jones? Jim Jones ran to Branham after he was shut down and kicked out by real men of God.

Listen, you either have the truth or not!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Jim Jones ran to William Branham?

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=52393

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=52392

[Evang.Benincasa]