What Must I Do?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Ha. No he is a Just GOD. If he does not give everyone a chance, then he is not JUST.

You preach and UNJUST GOD.

Have to agree with Aquila on THIS point. God is not unjust if he does not draw everyone.

Paul explains that.

9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom. 9:11-15

Verse 11 portrays grace as "unmerited favor". Jacob was chosen for no good he had done. Simply because God willed it so. He asks the question everyone today asks? Since God does this is he unrighteous? By this the implication is that God would not be just if he did not give everyone the same chance.

Read VERY carefully Pauls answer in verse 15. God does NOT promise everyone a chance to be saved. He says he will have mercy and compassion on whom he will.

His adversaries declare this unfair to mankind.

How does Paul answer them?

9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Paul answers by asking the question is it not fair to the potter to make vessels as he chooses? It would not be fair to the CREATOR if he could not. Paul is more concerned about whats just to the POTTER than he is the clay. Whats fair to God more than whats fair to men.

The clay or thing created cannot say anything to its maker.

I dont understand whats hard to understand about how Paul answers the charge that God is unjust. He lays it out pretty clear.

So on the fact of predestination Aquila is correct.

On the point of Acts 2:38 he disagrees with Peter and the Apostles.

Regeneration is only written one time in context of salvation and refers to water baptism in Titus 3:5

3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Have to agree with Aquila on THIS point. God is not unjust if he does not draw everyone.

Paul explains that.

9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom. 9:11-15

Verse 11 portrays grace as "unmerited favor". Jacob was chosen for no good he had done. Simply because God willed it so. He asks the question everyone today asks? Since God does this is he unrighteous? By this the implication is that God would not be just if he did not give everyone the same chance.

Read VERY carefully Pauls answer in verse 15. God does NOT promise everyone a chance to be saved. He says he will have mercy and compassion on whom he will.

His adversaries declare this unfair to mankind.

How does Paul answer them?

9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Paul answers by asking the question is it not fair to the potter to make vessels as he chooses? It would not be fair to the CREATOR if he could not. Paul is more concerned about whats just to the POTTER than he is the clay. Whats fair to God more than whats fair to men.

The clay or thing created cannot say anything to its maker.

I dont understand whats hard to understand about how Paul answers the charge that God is unjust. He lays it out pretty clear.

So on the fact of predestination Aquila is correct.

On the point of Acts 2:38 he disagrees with Peter and the Apostles.

Regeneration is only written one time in context of salvation and refers to water baptism in Titus 3:5

3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Thank you for explaining where we agree.

Not to be critical, it's a historic position... but do you believe in baptismal regeneration?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thank you for explaining where we agree.

Not to be critical, it's a historic position... but do you believe in baptismal regeneration?

Yes I believe baptism that is done in faith saves. Peter said baptism saves us. Faith also draws the Spirit on us.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes I believe baptism that is done in faith saves. Peter said baptism saves us. Faith also draws the Spirit on us.

I can respect that opinion.

I know there are different opinions out there. Regardless... I think one better be baptized. I mean, if it isn't salvational, it's still being obedient. And if it is... well... it would be a silly thing to loose one's soul over.