Helltruth.com

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

Are you a universalist?

I want to know God, as He really is, not only in the traditions of men.

Do I believe God will succeed in the redemption of HIS creation? Yes, and He will remove all evil and wickedness in the process. "...He makes ALL things new..."

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

One thing for sure threat of a burning hell hasn't kept people from sinning.

LOL

That's silly. The doctrine of Hell isn't supposed to keep people from sinning.

"You better do right or you'll go to Hell!" I've heard it preached like that, but that's stupid.

People sin because of the sinful nature that exists in the flesh. Many don't understand "nature". It's in man's fallen "nature" to sin... just like it's in a fish's "nature" to swim. Just like it's in a hog's nature to wallow in filth. Try telling a hog, "Don't wallow in that filth... or you'll go to Hell!" Even if he could understand you... eventually... when you're not looking... he'd wallow in filth. Trying telling a fish not to swim. lol

What keeps people from sinning? Union with Christ through the Holy Ghost and the reckoning of one's very identity in Christ alone. Do you realize that the Holy Ghost was given to you to... make you one with God through Christ? To make you a partaker of the divine nature of God Himself? The very lifeforce of Christ is flowing in your human spirit. The very "mind of Christ" is to be cultivated through prayer, study, and meditation. It is the "mind of Christ" that is to replace that old carnal mind of the flesh. It's the Father's desire to conform all His children into the image and likeness of JESUS. Not to have them perform their religious duty of "doing right" and "not sinning". That's a self derrived righteousness. Doing right and not sinning isn't the result of "doing" something. It's the result of "BEING" something... a partaker in the very nature and identity of Jesus. Becoming a branch of the Vine... a living extension of Jesus Himself. We are called to "become Jesus" through our union with the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Christ). It's not about "doing" it's about "being". It's about our core IDENTITY.

When one truly reckons themselves as being in union with God and as a living extention of Jesus Himself that is being conformed into the very image and likeness of Christ... it's about "being" like Jesus... not just "doing" like Jesus.

Hell is simply a truth that affirms God's justice and judgment against wickedness. It's a warning. Those who do not partake in the divine nature and therefore are not conformed into the image of Christ will suffer eternal alienation from God.

[Nitehawk013]

Ezekiel does make it clear that the King of Tyre/Tyrus will be destroyed/annihilated, but that isn't talking about Satan. The text makes it clear it is talking about a king. Just as Isaiah does when it references the king of Babylon and we mistakenly try to say it is Satan.

Just because the writer uses poetic language to describe just how beautifula nd great the man was, it doesn't mean he was Satan. If you assume the King of Tyre was Satan due to lofty descriptions, why not assume the same about the Pharoah described in equally lofty ways in another chapter?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I could never understand why God would send someone to hell for an ageless amount of time for only a lifetime worth of sin.

Because the seriousness of a crime is predicated upon the nature and office of the offended.

For example, if one gets in a bar fight and punches a man it's a misdomeanor assult charge, IF the man wants to press charges. However, if that same man punched the President of the United States or a police officer... it's a felony.

God by nature is infinitely and eternally holy. God is also infinitely and eternally absolute in His authority. Any crime against God's creation or God's nature is a crime of an infinite and eternal nature. Therefore, justice can only be served if the punishment is infinite and eternal also.

Thus eternal torments in Hell is the only form of justice deserved. If Hell isn't eternal it is an attack on the very nature of God. Is God eternal? Yes. Then punishment must be eternal. If punishment isn't eternal... it's a claim that God isn't eternal in His Majesty.

Also... man isn't sent to Hell for the things they do on earth. All men were condemned in Adam. We as a whole were CONDEMNED as a race as a result of Adam's sin. The condemnation was declared. The judgment only affirms God's condemnation by judging our works on earth. If any angel or being in creation had any doubts regarding God's just condemnation of man... the judgment of our deeds on earth prove that man is absolutely rotten and depraved to the core. However... God is loving and doesn't desire that all of mankind be lost. So God made a way. God chose to punish Jesus in the place of all who would come to Him and believe Him. Now God's wrath and anger are satisfied. The Bible tells us that He who knew no sin BECAME sin itself.... that we might BECOME the righteousness of God. The sin that Jesus became was sin in total. My sin, your sin, everyone's sin. And so God punished YOUR sin and MY sin... in Christ on the cross. It's been paid for in full. To condemn us would be double jeapardy. The debt's been paid. Now, we freely receive Christ's imputed righteousness by faith. We stand holy and sinless before God (Justified). That's how we were able to receive the Holy Ghost. Now, through the power of the Holy Ghost we are united with God through Christ, and God is shaping our very being into the image and likeness of Christ as we surrender to His perfect will in our lives (Sanctification). Having received Jesus, who is our life, we have eternal life. Because He is eternal.... and we live and remain for as long as He does. We are but branches on the Vine... extensions of Jesus.

God is eternal.
Punishment is eternal.
Christ's propitiatory work is eternal.
Life in Christ is eternal.

[Michael The Disciple]

Jesus said, “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46). Here in the same sentence, Christ uses the word “eternal” (aionos) to describe the duration of both Heaven and Hell. Thus, according to our Lord, if some will consciously experience Heaven forever, then some must consciously experience Hell forever.

The punishment of the wicked is ETERNAL JUDGMENT. When they die in the Lake Of Fire they are dead. They will never live again. They have been destroyed with no hope of life again.

Peter never taught one word about burning and torment without end. Rather he mentioned the destruction of evil men.

2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 2 Peter 2:12

2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 2 Peter 2:17

He agrees with the scriptures. The wicked will be destroyed and pass into the darkness of death.

Paul never mentioned burning without end in the Lake Of Fire once. Rather he taught the wicked would face destruction.

1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2 Thess. 1:9

Apostle James does not mention anything about burning that never ends. Rather he warns about the DEATH OF A SOUL.

5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:20

So the "apostles doctrine" was simply passing on what Jesus taught.

10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt. 10:28

[NotforSale]

Eternal Damnation/Punishment/Torment is the most imbalanced, Scriptural disaster within the Christian Faith. Numerous problems follow the concept of Humans burning in flames for Eternity.

1. No one has been there. It is a Spectral World/Dimension, used to manipulate the weak in conscience by fear.

2. Old and New Testaments completely clash. Eternal Punishment is not in the Old Testament, and, Jewish teachings of Old do not support any such place.

3. Eternal torture is found prior to the New Testament in heathen Religions, long before Christianity existed, including Rome, where the Catholic Church dominated the influence of modern Christendom and the production of the King James Bible.

4. It is thoroughly confirmed, translating from Ancient Languages can easily tilt towards the specific Culture/Faith responsible for the "Bible" in hand. Words like, "Forever" are misused, leaving readers at the mercy of dogmas that lead to false doctrine and ideas that cannot be proven.

5. What makes one good enough to go to Heaven? What makes one bad enough to go to Hell for Eternity, burning in flames without relief? Since there is no way to truly answer this question, Hell becomes the "Tool" of Religious tyrants who play with the scale that cannot be calibrated.

6. What Father would send his children to a place where the screams of agony never cease? If God is our Father, the act of casting His wayward Children into such an abyss is beyond human comprehension. The only way to understand this is to somehow hate our own children and loved ones.

7. God is Love. You can slice it, dice it, and put it in a blender, but the bottom line is, God is Love. His Love was proven on Calvary, where forgiveness for a lost World was made complete. Jesus looked down and said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do”. We will all need to hear these words when we die.

8. Age of accountability: this is another valid misnomer, where we are left with nothing but guess work.

9. People who have never heard the Gospel of Christianity: this is another catastrophic ocean of guessing.

10. Why would God allow the Human Race to propagate since the beginning if God knew 99.9% of His Creation would burn in unending flames? This, AFF, makes absolutely no sense.

11. Many Apostolic/Oneness people believe, unless you follow our “Plan” of Salvation, you will not make Heaven. This is the exact dogma of countless, Christian Denominations. From Catholics to the Puritans, Hellfire is used to persuade people to follow, and stay, within a certain Faith.

[Michael The Disciple]

Jesus Christ thought that fear was a good motivation for men to repent and get right with God.

10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt. 10:28

The Jesus of the Bible warned men about destruction in Gehenna Fire. The Jesus of scripture is different than the one men portray nowadays in many ways.

[Nitehawk013]

So since we don't like the idea of eternal hell fire...it just can't be true?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

So since we don't like the idea of eternal hell fire...it just can't be true?

I don't think it's a matter of "Not Liking" the idea. It's a matter of "Validating" the idea.

[Nitehawk013]

But in the validating, if you choose to explain away any aspect you don't like...then are you really validating anything?

Forever didn't really mean forever. Bible is corrupted by the roman catholics. etc etc.