Old Time Pentecost

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

And how do you prepare a group of people to accept this kind of teaching and kids to follow these principles even when they are at school and no one is looking? With the teachings they have been indoctrinated with for generations... The teachings that say that the man of God is somehow closer to God then the rest, that he hears from God in ways that others don't. You know, the the doctrines espoused in 'Old Time Pentecost'.

LOL, you show them scripture. Lets see, the "man of God" is closer than the rest?? Really ? You don't believe that ? Everyone in the world is equally close to God ? Interesting, not biblical, but interesting. The "man of God" hears from God in ways others don't. Yes thats scriptural too. Now, if your referring to "the man of God" as a pastor, then I don't know. I am referring to the "man of God" as any individual follower of Christ. Which is exactly as it should be.

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

But when a pastor evolves into what this doctrine tells him he is, someone who has the right to control others, and so he sets a 'stronger' set of standards in place and takes over the minds of these people who have been trained and previously conditioned to blindly obey and makes them 'his' people, setting them on a course that you believe is too rigid you cry foul. Too funny!

Sounds like you have had a terrible experience. Almost sounds like a good horror book, lol. Sorry you didn't get out of it sooner. But of course that's the motherships fault.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by scotty

LOL, you show them scripture. Lets see, the "man of God" is closer than the rest?? Really ? You don't believe that ? Everyone in the world is equally close to God ? Interesting, not biblical, but interesting. The "man of God" hears from God in ways others don't. Yes thats scriptural too. Now, if your referring to "the man of God" as a pastor, then I don't know. I am referring to the "man of God" as any individual follower of Christ. Which is exactly as it should be.
Sounds like you have had a terrible experience. Almost sounds like a good horror book, lol. Sorry you didn't get out of it sooner. But of course that's the motherships fault.

I don't get the frequent references to the 'mothership'... sounds like maybe you've been smokin' somethin'... KWIM? ...Sure you do...

By 'man of God' I mean it in exactly the same sense it has been used by every preacher and evangelist I have heard say it in the last decade... and that is NOT every believer in Christ and you know it... but hey if you want to make up your own definitions that only you understand go ahead, I'm all good with it.

I think I had an average experience, nothing particularity horrible although it was horrible. Judging from what others who have gotten out have said my experience was certainly not the worst I've heard of, there were even some good parts . It was always 'seek after God with all your heart and soul' from the pulpit... right up until that seeking put me one step off the preached path... 'Get out of your comfort zone and do something for God' right up 'till I got out of the preachers comfort zone by giving my tithe check to a widow to help bury her husband.

At least I can still consider going to church unlike my poor neighbor Peggy who was so shaken by what went on in her experience she swears that she will never go past the doorway of another church again. She was a new convert that had no previous church experience... I am thankful for my years in the Baptist church where there was a church government and accountability and not a dictator or mini-Pope who ruled with an iron fist while preaching about the good ol' brush arbor days of 24 straight hours of HG filled tongue talking... You've heard enough... no I can't love what it stands for anymore... and I don't wax nostalgic for it.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

At least I can still consider going to church unlike my poor neighbor Peggy who was so shaken by what went on in her experience she swears that she will never go past the doorway of another church again. She was a new convert that had no previous church experience... I am thankful for my years in the Baptist church where there was a church government and accountability and not a dictator or mini-Pope who ruled with an iron fist while preaching about the good ol' brush arbor days of 24 straight hours of HG filled tongue talking... You've heard enough... no I can't love what it stands for anymore... and I don't wax nostalgic for it.

They talk about the good ol brush arbor days...yet they are the ones who took pentecost out of "those days" by wanting to be like every other church and some got greedy doing it too.

One pastor had big plans of landscaping around the church with a waterfall. This same pastor was really ugly and yelled at my husband for stepping on the grass.
Boy...that grass was so important.

[PASTOR'S WIFE]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

They talk about the good ol brush arbor days...yet they are the ones who took pentecost out of "those days" by wanting to be like every other church and some got greedy doing it too.

One pastor had big plans of landscaping around the church with a waterfall. This same pastor was really ugly and yelled at my husband for stepping on the grass.
Boy...that grass was so important.

PLease don't let the devil keep you out of church. That is his job... If you can't find a church of your denomination, find another Holy Ghost filled church and go to it. Nothing is worth keeping us out of Heaven.

Release it and let it go. That is hard but you do it for yourself and your family. It doesn't mean the other person or church is right, just means you are casting ALL your care upon Him for He careth for you. BITTERNESS is a strong hold and it will devour all your waking moments. It will rob you of your peace and joy and trust in people. I love Philippians chapter 4 and it has helped me so many times. REJOICE and again I say REJOICE. The chapter tells us what to think on.

BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT AND BOUGHT THE T-SHIRT...

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by PASTOR'S WIFE

PLease don't let the devil keep you out of church. That is his job... If you can't find a church of your denomination, find another Holy Ghost filled church and go to it. Nothing is worth keeping us out of Heaven.

Release it and let it go. That is hard but you do it for yourself and your family. It doesn't mean the other person or church is right, just means you are casting ALL your care upon Him for He careth for you. BITTERNESS is a strong hold and it will devour all your waking moments. It will rob you of your peace and joy and trust in people. I love Philippians chapter 4 and it has helped me so many times. REJOICE and again I say REJOICE. The chapter tells us what to think on.

BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT AND BOUGHT THE T-SHIRT...

Pastors wife, I think your words are kind and your heart is good...but... They still focus on the basic premise that somehow to be complete we must 'go' to church. And really that is the very first place that the 'church' falls down. While pastors will occasionally SAY it, their other words prove that they do not really believe that we ARE the church. There are really no sacred temples, the temple of the Holy Spirit is WITHIN US. The law has indeed been written on our hearts and we can gather ANYWHERE. At home, in the park, on a busy city street corner and I believe even on the internet for fellowship. We can love one another and support one another and carry each others burdens and it does not have to look anything like a traditional or even nontraditional 'church' service...

To me that is truly 'old time Pentecost'... it is the upper room, it is the racially mixed (in a day when that was wholly unacceptable) group at Azuza street, it was the brush arbors where women church planters led the worship and preached their hearts out... But it is always quickly replaced by temple building and law keeping, and making ourselves a king (pastor?) for salvation. Man will always make an idol if left to himself for five minutes... it is our nature. We will even have our sacred grass that is worth more than a persons feelings, or our sacred music department, or our holy-exalted-above-others-and-due-double-honor-preachers. And as we begin to care more for that then we care for people who need our help to know God, as we reject those who are not pleasing to us and don't fit the 'mold', as we no longer find our worship in selfless acts of service to others and sacrificial giving to those who have little or nothing but instead find it in great big beautiful buildings with sound systems and landscaping, and when we stop taking the message of Jesus to the people and insist that they must be attracted by our 'stuff' to come to church... well... we've lost the heart of Christ altogether and we have stopped BEING the church.

Those who break away from that are not always bitter or under the devil's influence or even out in the wilderness alone... sometimes, they are exactly where God wants them and He is pleased.

Shalom

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

...well... we've lost the heart of Christ altogether and we have stopped BEING the church.

Those who break away from that are not always bitter or under the devil's influence or even out in the wilderness alone... sometimes, they are exactly where God wants them and He is pleased.

Shalom

Amen. Please back away from anything you might label "confusion."
It will always be there, at least until it isn't, and you are free to return anytime you want. I really feel for people who have rarely/never moved, and feel trapped in a church system/locale that, from the descriptions above, certainly translate "madness."

When enough people say "brush arbor," you will then see "revival."
If your church outshines a brush arbor, then this doesn't apply.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I don't get the frequent references to the 'mothership'... sounds like maybe you've been smokin' somethin'... KWIM? ...Sure you do...

By 'man of God' I mean it in exactly the same sense it has been used by every preacher and evangelist I have heard say it in the last decade... and that is NOT every believer in Christ and you know it... but hey if you want to make up your own definitions that only you understand go ahead, I'm all good with it.

I think I had an average experience, nothing particularity horrible although it was horrible. Judging from what others who have gotten out have said my experience was certainly not the worst I've heard of, there were even some good parts . It was always 'seek after God with all your heart and soul' from the pulpit... right up until that seeking put me one step off the preached path... 'Get out of your comfort zone and do something for God' right up 'till I got out of the preachers comfort zone by giving my tithe check to a widow to help bury her husband.

At least I can still consider going to church unlike my poor neighbor Peggy who was so shaken by what went on in her experience she swears that she will never go past the doorway of another church again. She was a new convert that had no previous church experience... I am thankful for my years in the Baptist church where there was a church government and accountability and not a dictator or mini-Pope who ruled with an iron fist while preaching about the good ol' brush arbor days of 24 straight hours of HG filled tongue talking... You've heard enough... no I can't love what it stands for anymore... and I don't wax nostalgic for it.

Oh please ! drop the backwoods act. Your smarter than you let on in some post then suddenly "out of touch" in others ??, lol. Really ?

Don't like your pastor, pray for him. Don't like your congregation, pray for them. Can't handle that, leave, which you did. So what is all the spillin milk about ? Yes, all this gets old, same ole same ole. Who knows, maybe they didn't like you either. Maybe there was something about you that they saw from the beginning. Maybe they saw right through all your service to the church when suddenly you had "ideas" to make things better. I love those types, come in and do so much for the church they suddenly think it gives them some kind of "shareholder" rights to direct it. yeah, we got one of those right now. Love her to death, but what a hypocrit.

Either way, you got rid of them or they got rid of you. everyone should be happy now , so why you here ? oh yeah, AA. lol.


(Sorry, Hoovie, just couldn't balance this one. Let all the boo hoo dramatics get to me this time)

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by scotty

Oh please ! drop the backwoods act. Your smarter than you let on in some post then suddenly "out of touch" in others ??, lol. Really ?

Don't like your pastor, pray for him. Don't like your congregation, pray for them. Can't handle that, leave, which you did. So what is all the spillin milk about ? Yes, all this gets old, same ole same ole. Who knows, maybe they didn't like you either. Maybe there was something about you that they saw from the beginning. Maybe they saw right through all your service to the church when suddenly you had "ideas" to make things better. I love those types, come in and do so much for the church they suddenly think it gives them some kind of "shareholder" rights to direct it. yeah, we got one of those right now. Love her to death, but what a hypocrit.

Either way, you got rid of them or they got rid of you. everyone should be happy now , so why you here ? oh yeah, AA. lol.


(Sorry, Hoovie, just couldn't balance this one. Let all the boo hoo dramatics get to me this time)

Scotty, I want to assure you that she is not lying when she is speaking about all the things that went on at her church. I believe you have a wonderful church fellowship to belong to, and perhaps you can't fathom this being the case, but it is true. In the area of Texas where she lives, with a UPC church on almost every street corner, and in every backwoods town, the stuff that goes on would blow your mind, and she probably hasn't even said the half of it.

It sometimes takes a while for those wounds to heal, and to move on, and a place like AFF is where healing can take place... where you see you are not the only one.

I am not saying or encouraging anyone to stop looking for a place to call their home church where the Spirit moves, and people are sincerely loving God. I am reminded of Elijah after he called down fire on the prophets of Bael, and then he went and sat down, and felt sorry for himself, feeling like he was all alone, and God told him that he still had seven thousand who hadn't bowed their knee.

Sometimes you feel you are all alone, in your situation, and it is places like AFF that help you understand there is hope. There are other people suffering too. And there are other people who are continuing on in the faith, despite difficult circumstances.

Until you have walked in someone's shoes, don't judge them. That is the way of Jesus, and not the way of man.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Scotty, I want to assure you that she is not lying when she is speaking about all the things that went on at her church. I believe you have a wonderful church fellowship to belong to, and perhaps you can't fathom this being the case, but it is true. In the area of Texas where she lives, with a UPC church on almost every street corner, and in every backwoods town, the stuff that goes on would blow your mind, and she probably hasn't even said the half of it.

It sometimes takes a while for those wounds to heal, and to move on, and a place like AFF is where healing can take place... where you see you are not the only one.

I am not saying or encouraging anyone to stop looking for a place to call their home church where the Spirit moves, and people are sincerely loving God. I am reminded of Elijah after he called down fire on the prophets of Bael, and then he went and sat down, and felt sorry for himself, feeling like he was all alone, and God told him that he still had seven thousand who hadn't bowed their knee.

Sometimes you feel you are all alone, in your situation, and it is places like AFF that help you understand there is hope. There are other people suffering too. And there are other people who are continuing on in the faith, despite difficult circumstances.

Until you have walked in someone's shoes, don't judge them. That is the way of Jesus, and not the way of man.

Oh brother, If I had a dime everytime this was written.

Your right. That is exactly what this place is for. Its a place to come and dump on people. We are all sitting behind keyboards and a screen. I could be a satan worshipping atheist just stirring the pot for all any of you know. At the same time, we don't know anyone here. Everyone has their own story, and it is theirs and theirs alone. We never get to hear the congregation or pastors side of the story.

(open stage right)

We are told not to follow the great mothership without question, yet we are judgemental if we do not follow every sad story that hits this board without question.

We are told that we are brainwashed if we agree with the "man" made standards of the oh so terrible UPC, yet we are without the love of Christ if we question the words of one person's story.

We are told we should question and turn our back on the organiztion that has, despite it's shortcomings, led many to Christ. Yet we should not question but love unconditionally one person with a sad story of whom for all we know has only led a goat to water.
.
(close the curtains)

But seriously, are we ? If I am allowed to question, no, instructed and encouraged to question preachers, pastors and leaders! If miracles, moves of God, and stirrings of the Holy Spirit can be questioned on here as being nothing more than the emotional hype of someone who just got caught up in a song. Then why am I not allowed to question the other side? Why can't I doubt without being labeled unloving . How do I know they are telling the truth? How do I know they are not just disgruntled church members who are hurt because the pastor didnt shake their hand one sunday morning. Or somebody ate the last slice of apple pie at the potluck. Or heavens forbid, someone took my parking spot!!! they know I been parkin my butt in that spot on that pew for 2 sundays in a row, how dare they!!!..

TIMMAAAYYYYYY , brother, I love you. Now I feel your pain.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by scotty

Oh brother, If I had a dime everytime this was written.

Your right. That is exactly what this place is for. Its a place to come and dump on people. We are all sitting behind keyboards and a screen. I could be a satan worshipping atheist just stirring the pot for all any of you know. At the same time, we don't know anyone here. Everyone has their own story, and it is theirs and theirs alone. We never get to hear the congregation or pastors side of the story.

(open stage right)

We are told not to follow the great mothership without question, yet we are judgemental if we do not follow every sad story that hits this board without question.

We are told that we are brainwashed if we agree with the "man" made standards of the oh so terrible UPC, yet we are without the love of Christ if we question the words of one person's story.

We are told we should question and turn our back on the organiztion that has, despite it's shortcomings, led many to Christ. Yet we should not question but love unconditionally one person with a sad story of whom for all we know has only led a goat to water.
.
(close the curtains)

But seriously, are we ? If I am allowed to question, no, instructed and encouraged to question preachers, pastors and leaders! If miracles, moves of God, and stirrings of the Holy Spirit can be questioned on here as being nothing more than the emotional hype of someone who just got caught up in a song. Then why am I not allowed to question the other side? Why can't I doubt without being labeled unloving . How do I know they are telling the truth? How do I know they are not just disgruntled church members who are hurt because the pastor didnt shake their hand one sunday morning. Or somebody ate the last slice of apple pie at the potluck. Or heavens forbid, someone took my parking spot!!! they know I been parkin my butt in that spot on that pew for 2 sundays in a row, how dare they!!!..

TIMMAAAYYYYYY , brother, I love you. Now I feel your pain.

I promise I'm a real person. I live a real life. I am a nurse, I am a farmer, I am a wife and a mother of five sons and a grandmother of 4 precious grandbabies. I garden, fish, ride horses, milk cows. I have a good life. If you ever want to know more about it PM me sometime.

If you do not believe that the people here are real, why do you participate?

No person in the church offended me, even the pastor did not offend me... what is preached over the pulpit as doctrine offends me.