Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus2woman
Aquila,
Can you please show me at what point in American history you believe that people lived as a 'Christian culture'? Please give a date range and why you believe it was so. I have combed our history pretty thoroughly and find the idea that we are a 'Christian nation' or are founded on 'Christian principles' or have ever lived as a 'Christian nation' to be complete fallacies.
Many/most of our founding fathers were in fact Masons and set up our government on the principles of those beliefs, not the beliefs of the bible. Some also claimed a brand of Christianity while others were openly atheist.
We have always had large pockets of immorally living people in the US and continue to do so today. I will not deny that in some ways these people are not more flagrant and vulgar then in days past but I am convinced that most of this is simply a more complete exposure. We now know of every crime that goes on nation wide brought to us in 30 second snippets by our nightly news. People in the past were confined to knowledge of what went on in their own neighborhoods.
Let me give you one small example: I believe that in my generation just as many young girls were molested by relatives as are today. However those things were kept quiet by immediate and even extended family because of shame and even teachers and school officials looked away not wanting to get involved in a family's 'business'. Today there are reporting laws that place responsibility on those who fail to report, leading to more reporting (not more molesting). So now it appears that there is more incest when actually the numbers have not changed, just our ability to count and document them.
I think we can extend this method over all criminal activity pretty much and when adjusted for population our society has not changed much over generations but I hear from people every day that this day is worse than days before.
I wanted to add: I am asking this question of you because you seem to be quite capable of defending your views and I find this a common view. If it has a base I'd sure like to know what it is as I've not been able to uncover the 'Christian Nation' in our history. But if anyone else would like to chime in that would be great too. 
Thanks. |
Sure thing.
Titus2woman, what I’m talking about is “culture”. I know that atheists and sin has always been among us. I know that various sins that were rarely discussed in the open are now discussed and/or reported openly. I know that this can give the illusion that sin is more prevalent. However, my point is that our “culture” was Christian. The very reason why such things were not spoken of openly was because of the social condemnation that would come about in our culture. Nearly 100 years ago our society would be aghast at the notion of the majority of children being born out of wedlock. Why? Christian values in culture. While homosexuality has always been with us, it would have been unthinkable for society to embrace “gay marriage”. In fact, laws were written in many states that even condemned homosexual activity among individuals in the privacy of their own homes…the notion of gay marriage would have been thrown out instantly without debate. Why? Christian culture. To make abortion legal throughout the United States a case had to be taken to the Supreme Court. Why? Because of Christian culture. We used to value the discipline of our children. Grandparents and great grandparents can testify of a time when dad could tell them to go pick a “switch” out of the backyard and punish them with it. Today that would be ruled as “child abuse”… yet their generation was by far more respectful, law abiding, and grounded in traditional values than subsequent generations. Why was this? Because of Christian culture.
The church RETREATED and became ascetic in the Fundamentalist quest for “holiness”. In abandoning the ranks of society to become “pure” we surrendered society to the onslaught of wicked and godless social engineers. If we do not engage the fight feverishly with a righteous rage against evil our children will grow up in a society that values and celebrates married gays, shacked up straights, the right to murder one’s unborn child without discretion, child molestation defined as “love” or “experimentation”, and total moral chaos. I read an article that explained that even in Canada courts are challenging home schooling parents because they are not in the system because of their religious beliefs. Statism reigns. The notion of “God given rights” has gone out the window and now the STATE is the final arbitrator of man’s rights and morality. This is happening because the church worldwide has failed to take a fierce stand against these evils. Church has become merely a place to go to hear spiritually inspiring and self-serving messages that tickle our itching ears and aching consciences. The church has become a business wherein too many “men of God” have become idol shepherds who feed themselves on the flock. Our vision has gone from Kingdom...to campuses. The church has failed in these last two generations. But I haven’t given up on her. I believe she will grow outside the walls of the religious institutions of our day. We will become a mountain that fills all the earth.
My son is five years old. I’m terrified at the world he’s growing up in and will inherit if we don’t take a stand and turn things around. We NEED a national revival, a national spiritual awakening, a REFORMATION that will rock the foundations of our society. And only GOD can do this. I fear it will take knocking America to her knees to do so. In order for this to take place…there must be a significant collapse of our society. There has to be a danger so great that it demands a fundamental change in thinking to survive. An event that will leave the next two generations having conversations about how grandpa and grandma survived “the fall of America” and all the trials that followed. How they stood with men and women to re-stabilize and bring peace. How they struggled and worked to rebuild and gain all that they have. Conversations much like those had with those who survived the Great Depression and WWII veterans. All the opinion pieces, articles, and sermons in the world will not turn the tide. This will take the hand of God. And we need to realize that such an event would be for our benefit, not our hurt.
I also feel that in a lot of ways our pessimistic view of the future has contributed to this. I mean...why not retreat to our monastic congregations wherein we separate ourselves from society to stay "pure" if we think we have no hope of making things better? If we have no hope for revival? I've heard campaigns to oppose gay marriage and abortion in society as "polishing the brass on a sinking ship". I've even said it myself. But is defending the family (the bedrock of society) and unborn children an option??? Is it "polishing the brass on a sinking ship"? No wonder we've not made a real difference.
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